1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,480
WKYC in Cleveland, Cleveland, Cleveland, Cleveland, Cleveland.

2
00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:26,720
And it's 7-8145-15, our contact topic this evening, sightings of UFOs.

3
00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:32,040
The number 7-814515 here on contact, the sightings of UFOs, as you know from time to

4
00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:38,640
time here on the contact, we group around our table people who have an interest in not

5
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,200
only in UFOs but also in investigating UFOs.

6
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:47,600
And they've all told me that 1965 indeed was a banner year as far as sightings of flying

7
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,120
saucers goes.

8
00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:53,200
More UFOs may not have been seen but it's the fact that more sightings were reported

9
00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,920
anyway to various UFO report centers across the country.

10
00:00:55,920 --> 00:01:00,320
So tonight on contact, well you're about the rise in the number of flying saucers being

11
00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,040
seen around the Cleveland area and also around the country.

12
00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,160
And if you indeed have seen one, let us know about it by calling 7-814515.

13
00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:12,200
We'll also be answering your questions, taking your comments and exchanging conversation

14
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,800
with you on the topic of sightings of UFOs.

15
00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,880
In the contact studio this evening will be Mr. Rick Hilberg, one of the directors of the

16
00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:25,400
American UFO Committee, the editor of UFO Magazine, Alan Manick, head of the UFO Report

17
00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:30,080
Center for Cleveland Ufology Project and Earl Neff, lecturer on flying saucers and a member

18
00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,520
of NICAP.

19
00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:37,760
On the contact line to Pennsylvania, Mr. George Fawcett, active member of NICAP and of APRO

20
00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:38,760
organization.

21
00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:44,440
And later on joining us after 11 o'clock will be WKYC weatherman and announcer Ken Goodman.

22
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,880
About two years ago, a little over two years ago I guess it was, Ken Goodman here on this

23
00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:54,800
program told us about I guess one of the best descriptions of a UFO sighting that he was

24
00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:56,600
involved in that I have ever heard.

25
00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:01,800
So we've asked Ken Goodman to join us again after his 11 o'clock or 11-10 weather forecast

26
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,200
up here in the studio and re-describe that event that happened at Fort Jackson, South

27
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:06,480
Carolina to you.

28
00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,160
If you'd like to be reserving your place on the line, the area code for those of you

29
00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:16,160
outside the state of Ohio is 216, the number 7-814515.

30
00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,960
Now before we get into a general discussion and get some of your comments, I'd like to

31
00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,200
hear from a panelist both here and on the contact line.

32
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,400
First the head of the UFO report center for Cleveland Ufology Project, Mr. Allen Manick.

33
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:28,400
Good evening, Harv.

34
00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:29,400
Good evening.

35
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:34,440
The Cleveland Ufology Project is a non-profit fact finding group organized for the purpose

36
00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:39,160
of gathering data, study and analysis and dissemination of information pertaining to

37
00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,160
aerial phenomena.

38
00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:47,040
1965 was perhaps the banner year in ufology as far goes.

39
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:54,640
We've had many sightings, an average of 7.7 unconfirmed sightings of aerial objects.

40
00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:59,600
Perhaps the biggest one last year and perhaps the biggest one or the major report was 9

41
00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,160
October 1965.

42
00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,040
That's October 9th.

43
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:08,720
Reports came through to report center number of 2340861 and the telephone was ringing off

44
00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:09,720
its hook.

45
00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,920
8.45 p.m. the first phone call came through.

46
00:03:12,920 --> 00:03:15,360
It came from Wade Avenue in Cleveland.

47
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,040
The second phone call came through from Vega, the third from West 61st in Lorraine.

48
00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,520
We saw a trend.

49
00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:26,560
Before the night was over, and the night meaning 12.45 in the evening and the next morning,

50
00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,400
42 phone calls came in, all reporting the same object.

51
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,040
These people did not know each other.

52
00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,520
These people all report the same thing.

53
00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:39,880
Many of these people sent in pictures of it as drawings, not actual photos.

54
00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,200
The night was a very drizzly night.

55
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:43,940
It was cold.

56
00:03:43,940 --> 00:03:45,140
We called Hopkins Airport.

57
00:03:45,140 --> 00:03:50,060
The Hopkins Airport checked with us was 2,200 feet, the level of air.

58
00:03:50,060 --> 00:03:54,980
The rain was a very bad drizzle, like I said before, and this object was underneath it.

59
00:03:54,980 --> 00:03:59,260
K-Sinstitute Technology was also informed.

60
00:03:59,260 --> 00:04:02,840
Radio stations WKYC were also informed.

61
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:07,420
The object was actually round disc shaped object with a superstructure on top.

62
00:04:07,420 --> 00:04:11,000
The lights were of revolving order or sequential in order.

63
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,480
Everyone had the same story of this.

64
00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,860
Everything was seen protruding from this object.

65
00:04:15,860 --> 00:04:20,800
These people were standing, either waiting for buses, being driven by cars or in automobiles

66
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,580
standing outside, but they saw this object.

67
00:04:23,580 --> 00:04:27,380
The most important thing about this object, that at arms length, it was the size of a

68
00:04:27,380 --> 00:04:28,380
fountain pen.

69
00:04:28,380 --> 00:04:31,760
That's roughly about four and a half to five inches in diameter at arms length, which would

70
00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:33,860
have to be low.

71
00:04:33,860 --> 00:04:38,460
What other sightings that you had at the reports throughout 1965 were outstanding, at least

72
00:04:38,460 --> 00:04:39,780
as far as you're concerned?

73
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,960
Well, really the most outstanding was when I just reported on, but we've had many reports

74
00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,120
of objects that were confirmed to be unidentified.

75
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:52,000
For the simple reason, people have tracked these things from, say, Chagrin Falls, Wycliffe.

76
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:57,760
We get another report call from West Side of Cleveland, all with the same type of object.

77
00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:03,680
Checking with the satellites, the Air Force, Hopkins Airport, Berk Lakefront, we have no

78
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,880
and Weather Report, naturally.

79
00:05:05,900 --> 00:05:09,460
We have no other confirmation of this, but of the research part of it.

80
00:05:09,460 --> 00:05:12,300
The main project is, like I said, gathering data.

81
00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:17,620
Most of the reports that come into the Youthful Report Center, do they check out to be authentic

82
00:05:17,620 --> 00:05:20,580
or do they wind up being something that's explainable?

83
00:05:20,580 --> 00:05:24,140
I'm glad you asked that, because many people say that we're a bunch of nuts and we take

84
00:05:24,140 --> 00:05:25,140
in anything.

85
00:05:25,140 --> 00:05:28,340
We do take all calls, by the way.

86
00:05:28,340 --> 00:05:32,180
Most of them are stars or the satellites or an aircraft.

87
00:05:32,180 --> 00:05:33,460
We can confirm these.

88
00:05:33,460 --> 00:05:36,960
But the ones that are not confirmed, I mean, are definitely, there is some shape to them

89
00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:38,440
other than aircraft.

90
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:39,440
There are not satellites.

91
00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,200
They prove to be not inversions.

92
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,760
These have to be going down as what we call or we classify as unknown.

93
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,680
And how many totally were in Cleveland during 65?

94
00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:50,360
You mentioned, I believe, that I didn't get the number.

95
00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,360
We have an average of 7.8 a month.

96
00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:53,360
7.8 a month.

97
00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:54,360
Right.

98
00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:55,360
And this is a high.

99
00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:56,360
Yes, it is.

100
00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,120
What about 85, 90 for the whole year?

101
00:05:58,120 --> 00:05:59,120
At least, yes.

102
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:00,480
All right, we'll get to your questions.

103
00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,580
7.8 1-4515 very shortly.

104
00:06:04,580 --> 00:06:09,500
On the contact line to Pennsylvania, an active member of Nightcap and of April, and a Returnee

105
00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:13,420
here to contact him, and to join us about a year ago, and we had a very exciting program

106
00:06:13,420 --> 00:06:14,420
with him at that time.

107
00:06:14,420 --> 00:06:18,740
We'd like for him to bring us up to date on, in his own opinion, what's new in sightings

108
00:06:18,740 --> 00:06:19,740
on UFOs.

109
00:06:19,740 --> 00:06:20,740
Mr. George Bossett.

110
00:06:20,740 --> 00:06:21,740
Mark, 1965 was a bad year.

111
00:06:21,740 --> 00:06:22,740
And when you speak of flying solstice or identify flying objects, they're both the same thing.

112
00:06:22,740 --> 00:06:23,740
Just, you know, the same thing.

113
00:06:23,740 --> 00:06:30,740
Just names that are given by the Air Force and by the people who accept them as common

114
00:06:30,740 --> 00:06:31,740
terminology.

115
00:06:31,740 --> 00:06:37,240
But the Air Force, according to the report I received the other day, had around 800 sightings

116
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,240
that they admitted, and about 19 or 20 they couldn't explain.

117
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:49,240
The National Investigations in Washington, which is doing a tremendous job on this, had

118
00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,240
over 2,500 sightings of which 400 were very substantial.

119
00:06:53,240 --> 00:07:00,240
Now, what was more interesting to me was the report and Look magazine, February the 22nd,

120
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:06,040
1966 issue, which dealt with the sightings up in Vector, New Hampshire, where over 60

121
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:11,160
eyewitnesses reported a cigar-shaped object with blinking red lights on it that came down

122
00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:17,740
and landed and chased police automobiles and other pedestrians down the road outside the

123
00:07:17,740 --> 00:07:20,860
small towns and the big cities also up in New Hampshire.

124
00:07:20,860 --> 00:07:25,660
And this was documented by a newspaper man and written up in many magazines.

125
00:07:25,660 --> 00:07:31,740
And we found it very interesting because this was not published till February the 22nd of

126
00:07:31,740 --> 00:07:32,740
1966.

127
00:07:32,740 --> 00:07:36,420
And we had a sighting right here in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania of an automobile chase on December

128
00:07:36,420 --> 00:07:42,240
the 10th with an identical sighting with the round red lights around the outer edge.

129
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:47,540
And same time, about three weeks later, there was a moving photograph taken of these objects

130
00:07:47,540 --> 00:07:53,180
out in Arizona, one of the other Midwestern states, identical description in color.

131
00:07:53,180 --> 00:07:56,180
This was one of the better sightings here in Pennsylvania.

132
00:07:56,180 --> 00:08:02,500
And as a result of over, for the past 18 months, we've received over 80 reports of landings,

133
00:08:02,500 --> 00:08:05,060
40 photographs being taken.

134
00:08:05,060 --> 00:08:09,100
And I know at least 48 to 50 magazine articles have been published on the subject.

135
00:08:09,100 --> 00:08:11,020
It was about a year.

136
00:08:11,020 --> 00:08:15,700
And here in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, we started a Pennsylvania New Jersey Two-Stake UFO Study

137
00:08:15,700 --> 00:08:16,700
Group.

138
00:08:16,700 --> 00:08:23,420
And we now have over 123 members, pilots, astronomers, amateur scowl doctors, you might say, also

139
00:08:23,420 --> 00:08:28,300
doctors and lawyers and people from all walks of life who are vitally interested in this

140
00:08:28,300 --> 00:08:29,300
phenomenon.

141
00:08:29,300 --> 00:08:35,340
Just recently, several weeks ago over in New Jersey, above the Wanaki Reservoir, a round

142
00:08:35,340 --> 00:08:40,340
lighting object came down and cast a nine foot circle on the lake, Reservoir.

143
00:08:40,340 --> 00:08:44,780
This object was seen by approximately 200 spectators, including the civilian defense

144
00:08:44,780 --> 00:08:49,540
director, the mayor of the city, the city editor, the state police.

145
00:08:49,540 --> 00:08:54,100
And then the object moved over the local high school building and hovered for a moment.

146
00:08:54,100 --> 00:08:58,260
They turned to the lake, the reservoir, and had to bend around this area for two hours,

147
00:08:58,260 --> 00:09:00,660
shot straight up with tremendous noise.

148
00:09:00,660 --> 00:09:06,500
This report was widely reported in newspapers here in Pennsylvania, New Jersey.

149
00:09:06,500 --> 00:09:10,100
The next day, the Air Force said that the object which had gone through these maneuvers

150
00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:15,780
and made this tremendous noise and had cast a searchlight beam down on the lake was the

151
00:09:15,780 --> 00:09:17,660
result of the planet Venus.

152
00:09:17,660 --> 00:09:22,580
Now, how well you can get, I don't know, but some of the explanations are far more fantastic

153
00:09:22,580 --> 00:09:24,220
than what's been seen.

154
00:09:24,220 --> 00:09:28,420
The only other thing I'd like to mention here is that we feel like here in the Pennsylvania

155
00:09:28,420 --> 00:09:33,380
we have established a definite correlation to many of the power failures and blackouts

156
00:09:33,380 --> 00:09:36,300
when these unidentified flying objects have occurred.

157
00:09:36,300 --> 00:09:41,980
We feel like that these electromagnetic force fields that evidently surround these objects

158
00:09:41,980 --> 00:09:48,260
have tremendous radiation effects and can't stall automobile engines, aircraft motors,

159
00:09:48,260 --> 00:09:50,060
as well as giant power stations.

160
00:09:50,060 --> 00:09:55,740
And during the northeast blackout, as well as other blackouts in Nevada and down in Brazil

161
00:09:55,740 --> 00:10:00,700
and up in Canada and other places, it has been documented many times, and even in Mexico

162
00:10:00,700 --> 00:10:06,420
and Texas, that unidentified flying objects happened present when power failure is occurring.

163
00:10:06,420 --> 00:10:10,980
So we've had a big year and a lot of excitement up and down the east coast as well as across

164
00:10:10,980 --> 00:10:13,180
the country and around the world.

165
00:10:13,180 --> 00:10:16,780
Mr. George Fossett on the Countdown Glyne 2, Pennsylvania, you'll get your chance to ask

166
00:10:16,780 --> 00:10:21,660
your questions of Mr. Fossett and my other guests and to make your own observations on

167
00:10:21,660 --> 00:10:24,900
sightings of unidentified flying objects.

168
00:10:24,900 --> 00:10:30,980
The number is 7-814515, area code if you're calling long distances, 216.

169
00:10:30,980 --> 00:10:35,820
Another Returnee here on contact is good to have you back again on a UFO roundtable type

170
00:10:35,820 --> 00:10:38,340
program, sightings of UFOs.

171
00:10:38,340 --> 00:10:43,340
One of the directors of the American UFO Committee and an editor for UFO Magazine, Rick Hilberg.

172
00:10:43,340 --> 00:10:45,780
Go to be back, Harv.

173
00:10:45,780 --> 00:10:50,420
As Mr. Fossett and the others in the studio did mention, 1965 was indeed a banner year

174
00:10:50,420 --> 00:10:52,380
for UFO reports.

175
00:10:52,380 --> 00:10:58,620
The main flap, which is a large number of UFO sightings, started in July and probably

176
00:10:58,620 --> 00:11:05,380
one of the most spectacular cases ever was reported on July 3rd when Mario John Barrera,

177
00:11:05,380 --> 00:11:11,300
who is a commander of a Chilean base in an article, radioed to his defense minister that

178
00:11:11,300 --> 00:11:16,340
there was something real causing electromagnetic interference on their apparatus.

179
00:11:16,340 --> 00:11:20,380
And in Buenos Aires, the Navy issued a communique saying that the object had been photographed

180
00:11:20,380 --> 00:11:22,880
at Argentina's base.

181
00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:29,580
This object was lens shaped and was yellow, red, and green and the colors would alternate.

182
00:11:29,580 --> 00:11:33,820
A Chilean corporal took the pictures, but they were in total darkness.

183
00:11:33,820 --> 00:11:39,460
About this time the photos should be developed and we're waiting to see any results.

184
00:11:39,460 --> 00:11:45,460
After that on the 11th of July in Portugal, strange objects were sighted in Portugal and

185
00:11:45,460 --> 00:11:46,460
the Azores.

186
00:11:46,460 --> 00:11:51,820
The Azores, an object stopped electromagnetic clocks.

187
00:11:51,820 --> 00:11:58,020
The first reported object appeared near the northern city of a porto where a man, Emmanuel

188
00:11:58,020 --> 00:12:03,420
Fernandes and his wife first saw something like a luminous flattened balloon.

189
00:12:03,420 --> 00:12:07,300
Fernandes, who was an employee of the Fishermen's Union, said that the strange object at first

190
00:12:07,300 --> 00:12:11,540
looked like a flattened balloon, but then when they both watched it looked like a plate,

191
00:12:11,540 --> 00:12:14,140
a typical disc shaped report.

192
00:12:14,140 --> 00:12:20,580
It was luminous, it was red, it stopped at a rather high altitude for three minutes

193
00:12:20,580 --> 00:12:24,780
and then it sped off at an incredible velocity.

194
00:12:24,780 --> 00:12:32,820
In South Carolina on July 12th, a UFO was reported by two gentlemen in a car.

195
00:12:32,820 --> 00:12:38,020
It was low, it was described as real bright, it flew alongside of their car.

196
00:12:38,020 --> 00:12:44,100
Right here in the Cleveland area in Pepper Pike on again July 12th, Mrs. William Carahus

197
00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:49,420
and her 11-year-old son Grant saw a brilliant UFO hovering over Shaker Boulevard.

198
00:12:49,420 --> 00:12:53,780
It was cigar shaped and metallic.

199
00:12:53,780 --> 00:12:59,540
And in Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Maryland on the 12th of July, a gigantic

200
00:12:59,540 --> 00:13:03,100
unidentified flying object was sighted and photographed.

201
00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:07,220
The expert said it was a weather balloon, but if it was a balloon no one was able to

202
00:13:07,220 --> 00:13:08,980
find out where it came from.

203
00:13:08,980 --> 00:13:13,820
The FAA, which usually is informed on such matters, said that it had no balloons up at

204
00:13:13,820 --> 00:13:18,380
that time and the only one that day was launched at Tyra, Texas, which couldn't have been over

205
00:13:18,380 --> 00:13:19,380
the area.

206
00:13:19,380 --> 00:13:21,740
There were many reports.

207
00:13:21,740 --> 00:13:28,780
A Fred Kirsted at the Akron-Canton satellite tracking station said it was definitely Venus.

208
00:13:28,780 --> 00:13:32,420
The FAA said they didn't know what it was.

209
00:13:32,420 --> 00:13:37,980
On the 17th of July in Uruguay, a youth said he saw a four-legged object touch down for

210
00:13:37,980 --> 00:13:44,260
two minutes in broad daylight on a beach just out across from the River Platte.

211
00:13:44,260 --> 00:13:49,580
He was quoted as saying that it shot skyward in a blinding flash when a tug tutored its

212
00:13:49,580 --> 00:13:50,580
siren.

213
00:13:50,580 --> 00:13:57,540
In Anaheim, California on July 21, a woman and her 13-year-old son reported that they

214
00:13:57,540 --> 00:14:01,780
saw a round color-changing UFO in the skies over Orange County.

215
00:14:01,780 --> 00:14:08,380
This is Stefan Palo, said the object was first spotted by your son at about 8.55 p.m. when

216
00:14:08,380 --> 00:14:11,380
he was playing at Maxwell Park.

217
00:14:11,380 --> 00:14:15,820
They went outside and saw the object traveling in a straight line to the northwest.

218
00:14:15,820 --> 00:14:18,700
It gave a white glow, but it slowly changed colors.

219
00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:22,460
It had arms of light, like rays.

220
00:14:22,460 --> 00:14:29,340
The big sighting, which made the headlines all across the nation, happened on July 31

221
00:14:29,340 --> 00:14:34,540
and August 1 and 2 and onward.

222
00:14:34,540 --> 00:14:39,780
Unidentified blips were spotted on the radar screen at the Wichita Weather Bureau, and which

223
00:14:39,780 --> 00:14:44,980
confirmed the presence of unidentified flying objects in the southwestern part of the country.

224
00:14:44,980 --> 00:14:49,900
After that, visual sightings came in from Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Kansas.

225
00:14:49,900 --> 00:14:54,460
The Oklahoma Highway Patrol, said the Tinker Air Force Base at Oklahoma City, was tracking

226
00:14:54,460 --> 00:14:57,140
as many as four on radar.

227
00:14:57,140 --> 00:15:01,980
And Tinker, to this day, refused to confirm or deny the report.

228
00:15:01,980 --> 00:15:07,220
A Wichita Weatherman said he tracked them at different times between 2 and 6 a.m., mostly

229
00:15:07,220 --> 00:15:09,820
on the south side of the city, he said.

230
00:15:09,820 --> 00:15:12,540
And again, I quote, I don't know what we've got here.

231
00:15:12,540 --> 00:15:16,860
It looks about the size of a sessioner on the screen.

232
00:15:16,860 --> 00:15:23,140
A spokesman at McConnell Air Force Base confirmed that the FAA had tracked them, but noted that

233
00:15:23,140 --> 00:15:28,140
the FAA radar covers only a 30-mile radius, while the Weather Bureau covers all of Kansas.

234
00:15:28,140 --> 00:15:30,460
So indeed, something was spotted.

235
00:15:30,460 --> 00:15:34,540
Deputy Sheriff Everett Tucker of Wellington, Kansas, said he and his wife saw one about

236
00:15:34,540 --> 00:15:37,560
4.50 a.m., moving rapidly to the north.

237
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,580
He said it had a red vapor trail behind it.

238
00:15:40,580 --> 00:15:46,260
And sightings of four mysterious craft in a diamond formation came from Chickasha, Cushing,

239
00:15:46,260 --> 00:15:48,580
Shawnee, and Chandler, Oklahoma.

240
00:15:48,580 --> 00:15:53,820
Police officers there in their patrol car sighted them, and they changed altitude and

241
00:15:53,820 --> 00:15:59,500
colors from red to white to blue-green, and they seemed to move from side to side at times.

242
00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:03,500
These are just a few of the many objects reported in 1965.

243
00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:05,980
And we'll get to more reports during 1965.

244
00:16:05,980 --> 00:16:10,260
In just a moment, and you'll meet my fourth guest here at the Context Studio.

245
00:16:10,260 --> 00:16:15,380
This is 8C with airline hostess Ella Tallya cruising high above the Atlantic at 600 miles

246
00:16:15,380 --> 00:16:16,380
an hour.

247
00:16:16,380 --> 00:16:19,580
So would it make you mad if a mean little kid kept biting your leg as you walked up

248
00:16:19,580 --> 00:16:20,580
the aisle?

249
00:16:20,580 --> 00:16:24,180
No, I'd just have him to go play outside.

250
00:16:24,180 --> 00:16:27,780
Would it make you mad if a passenger spilled hot coffee all over you?

251
00:16:27,780 --> 00:16:32,860
No, I'd just scream and apologize for being in his way.

252
00:16:32,860 --> 00:16:37,460
Suppose you bought a new 66 Chevrolet and found you could have saved $300 at Humphrey

253
00:16:37,460 --> 00:16:39,060
Central right from the start.

254
00:16:39,060 --> 00:16:40,860
Would that make you mad?

255
00:16:40,860 --> 00:16:41,860
My?

256
00:16:41,860 --> 00:16:44,420
Would that make me mad?

257
00:16:44,420 --> 00:16:48,980
Save time, save steps, save money on your new Chevrolet right from the start at 7001

258
00:16:48,980 --> 00:16:49,980
Euclid Avenue.

259
00:16:49,980 --> 00:16:54,340
Humphrey Central is a big dealership that will save you important dollars on your new

260
00:16:54,340 --> 00:16:55,340
Chevrolet.

261
00:16:55,340 --> 00:16:57,260
Don't make a doubtful deal elsewhere.

262
00:16:57,260 --> 00:17:00,300
Make the best deal at Humphrey Central 7001 Euclid.

263
00:17:00,300 --> 00:17:03,220
Or a Chevrolet, bested every way.

264
00:17:03,220 --> 00:17:05,500
Humphrey Central's Chevrolet.

265
00:17:05,500 --> 00:17:08,980
Humphrey Central is Chevrolet in Cleveland.

266
00:17:08,980 --> 00:17:13,180
Sightings of unidentified flying objects are a contact topic this evening.

267
00:17:13,180 --> 00:17:16,060
I've been doing some reading today of different articles.

268
00:17:16,060 --> 00:17:23,100
One, I guess that one of the TV camera men downstairs saved for me by Jacques Vallée,

269
00:17:23,100 --> 00:17:28,220
a Frenchman who is a scientist here in America, I guess was in the last October or so issue

270
00:17:28,220 --> 00:17:29,220
of a true magazine.

271
00:17:29,220 --> 00:17:33,740
It was one of the most fantastic accounts or collections of flying saucers that I've

272
00:17:33,740 --> 00:17:34,740
ever seen.

273
00:17:34,740 --> 00:17:39,100
Here's a scientist who has scientifically tabulated the sightings that he considers at least possible

274
00:17:39,100 --> 00:17:40,900
and come to some conclusions.

275
00:17:40,900 --> 00:17:45,540
You'll perhaps get to discuss some of those conclusions as to where they come from and

276
00:17:45,540 --> 00:17:47,180
what they're doing a little later on.

277
00:17:47,180 --> 00:17:53,140
Perhaps you have your own viewpoint, which you'll get a chance to express at 7814515.

278
00:17:53,140 --> 00:17:57,260
Let me also say before you meet my next guest that a little later on about an hour from

279
00:17:57,260 --> 00:17:58,580
now we'll have a tape interview.

280
00:17:58,580 --> 00:18:02,940
I did this afternoon with a very respected gentleman, if you're a Civil War buff or have

281
00:18:02,940 --> 00:18:07,300
read the book Andersonville, which won the Pulitzer Prize some years ago.

282
00:18:07,420 --> 00:18:13,140
I talked with the author of that book, Mr. McKinley Cantor, down in Sarasota, Florida

283
00:18:13,140 --> 00:18:14,460
earlier today.

284
00:18:14,460 --> 00:18:21,660
And he reports, and this is a well-respected, dignified man of letters, a quite fascinating

285
00:18:21,660 --> 00:18:28,020
account of his own sighting of a flying saucer and some viewpoints about UFOs also being

286
00:18:28,020 --> 00:18:29,020
discussed.

287
00:18:29,020 --> 00:18:30,020
Well, we'll have that a little later on.

288
00:18:30,020 --> 00:18:31,020
Let me remind you one.

289
00:18:31,020 --> 00:18:34,460
This is WKYC Cleveland, Ohio, NBC in Cleveland.

290
00:18:34,460 --> 00:18:36,500
Viewpoints of UFOs are our contact topic this evening.

291
00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:40,740
And now our fourth guest here in the Contact Studio, lecturer on flying saucers and member

292
00:18:40,740 --> 00:18:43,420
of NYCAP, Earl Nett.

293
00:18:43,420 --> 00:18:44,420
Thank you, Harb.

294
00:18:44,420 --> 00:18:46,260
I'm delighted to be back again.

295
00:18:46,260 --> 00:18:52,740
As you remember, we started this Ufology roundtable segment of contact back on October 4th, 1962,

296
00:18:52,740 --> 00:18:59,060
and two weeks ago when you had John Forron and the lawman was discussing it, I was at

297
00:18:59,060 --> 00:19:06,780
home listening with one ear writing furiously to get down to Waynesburg to the college to

298
00:19:06,780 --> 00:19:10,500
lecture the next night, and I was very disappointed I couldn't be here, but I enjoyed every moment

299
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:11,500
of it.

300
00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:12,500
Has it been that long?

301
00:19:12,500 --> 00:19:13,500
Four years almost?

302
00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:14,500
Almost four years.

303
00:19:14,500 --> 00:19:15,500
And I still haven't seen one.

304
00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:18,900
But I thought it was one of the greatest programs I've ever heard.

305
00:19:18,900 --> 00:19:20,980
My reactions all over have been the same.

306
00:19:20,980 --> 00:19:25,180
Downstate in Pittsburgh, everywhere, they said we've never heard anything as convincing

307
00:19:25,180 --> 00:19:26,940
as what John Forron's done.

308
00:19:26,940 --> 00:19:33,140
And I might say that the picture that is the lead picture in the Look magazine of February

309
00:19:33,140 --> 00:19:40,380
the 22nd is also the lead picture in March issue of Pageant magazine.

310
00:19:40,380 --> 00:19:46,660
And this particular picture, having been taken by James Lucci of Beaver Falls, where I'm

311
00:19:46,660 --> 00:19:52,100
going to be speaking, by the way, on the 25th of this month, the college down there, I was

312
00:19:52,100 --> 00:19:56,740
the first to show this picture publicly at Carnegie Music Hall on October 8th, and yet

313
00:19:56,740 --> 00:19:58,620
it was just taken on August the 8th.

314
00:19:58,620 --> 00:20:00,380
It's a tremendous picture.

315
00:20:00,380 --> 00:20:07,500
And as Mr. Fuller said the other night, this picture of the UFO is even more brilliant

316
00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:13,180
than the big full moon in the distance as it was photographed through the camera.

317
00:20:13,180 --> 00:20:17,500
These young men had out there that night as they were trying to photograph the moon.

318
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:21,980
And the parts that come down from the UFO and the part that goes back from the UFO as

319
00:20:21,980 --> 00:20:29,340
it's traveling are apparently some form of ray that only the sensitive emulsion of the

320
00:20:29,340 --> 00:20:30,900
film picks up.

321
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:39,340
I would like to say that one UFO skeptic plus one good UFO sighting, in my way of thinking,

322
00:20:39,340 --> 00:20:41,580
equals another UFO believer.

323
00:20:41,580 --> 00:20:46,260
And this again was proven the other night when Mr. Fuller was on.

324
00:20:46,260 --> 00:20:48,260
Seeing is believing.

325
00:20:48,260 --> 00:20:52,260
In fact, the late Dr. Wilbert Smith, who is in charge of Canada's project, Magnet, similar

326
00:20:52,260 --> 00:20:57,660
to our blue book, and it goes under different names now, said that he's quite certain that

327
00:20:57,660 --> 00:21:04,220
if a person, any place on the globe, would watch the sky for 30 consecutive hours, he

328
00:21:04,220 --> 00:21:07,340
would see an unidentified flying object.

329
00:21:07,340 --> 00:21:12,300
And recently, Chan Thomas, the authority on cataclysmic changes, said, if anyone wants

330
00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:16,900
to really see a flying saucer, they should go out there in the night sky, looking at

331
00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:20,500
the night sky, and fix their eyes upon a star.

332
00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:25,420
And as you watch this, you'll see, perhaps, activity around that star.

333
00:21:25,420 --> 00:21:29,260
I think that's probably one of the best ways of actually looking for UFOs.

334
00:21:29,260 --> 00:21:30,540
I've never looked for them.

335
00:21:30,540 --> 00:21:37,180
In fact, if it wasn't for our report centers and notification, we wouldn't, half the time,

336
00:21:37,180 --> 00:21:38,420
know what's going on up there.

337
00:21:38,420 --> 00:21:42,180
But one person sees it and then we immediately notify the others.

338
00:21:42,180 --> 00:21:47,500
I think it might be interesting to mention a few of the classic cases for those people

339
00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:52,300
who perhaps have never listened to this show if there are any of those.

340
00:21:52,300 --> 00:21:58,340
And of course, starting back with Kenneth Arnold, citing that was back on June 24th of

341
00:21:58,340 --> 00:22:01,580
47, he was a Boise, Idaho flyer.

342
00:22:01,580 --> 00:22:05,420
He was a businessman and had his own plane.

343
00:22:05,420 --> 00:22:08,020
He was over the Grand Teton Mountains.

344
00:22:08,020 --> 00:22:14,620
We saw up ahead of him, quite a distance ahead, nine silver objects.

345
00:22:14,620 --> 00:22:21,420
He referred to them as though they were saucers skipping along or a stone skipping over the

346
00:22:21,420 --> 00:22:22,420
water.

347
00:22:22,420 --> 00:22:25,680
He didn't actually refer to them as saucer in shape.

348
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:32,780
But back in the 1800s, a farmer did refer to something he had seen as saucer in shape.

349
00:22:32,780 --> 00:22:40,260
And I'm not going to mention these necessarily in any particular order, but Thomas Mantell,

350
00:22:40,260 --> 00:22:48,740
Captain Thomas Mantell, to be exact, on January the 7th in 1948 was down near the Fort Knox

351
00:22:48,740 --> 00:22:49,740
spot.

352
00:22:49,740 --> 00:22:56,900
It was a government air force based, to be exact, when he was notified and his wingmen

353
00:22:56,900 --> 00:22:59,940
were notified that there was something up there in the air and they should go up and

354
00:22:59,940 --> 00:23:01,900
see what it was.

355
00:23:01,900 --> 00:23:06,300
This was the unfortunate incident when the captain lost his life.

356
00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:11,820
There was disintegration of the plane and the air force later made a very ridiculous

357
00:23:11,820 --> 00:23:19,260
claim again as they have many times since that he was chasing a planet.

358
00:23:19,260 --> 00:23:24,220
Well Thomas Mantell, as I think I mentioned once before on this program, was a friend

359
00:23:24,220 --> 00:23:27,980
of a friend of mine who was in Air Force Intelligence at the time.

360
00:23:27,980 --> 00:23:34,740
And Mantell was a very fine flyer and he didn't have an hallucination, nor did his wingmen.

361
00:23:34,740 --> 00:23:40,140
And then there's the case of the Lubbock lights, 18 lights that were seen by not only Carl

362
00:23:40,140 --> 00:23:44,220
Hart Jr., who was fortunate enough to have a camera with him and shoot the pictures,

363
00:23:44,220 --> 00:23:48,420
a couple of them, but four scientists from Texas also were there.

364
00:23:48,420 --> 00:23:51,620
And that was in the summer of 1951.

365
00:23:51,620 --> 00:23:53,900
And then there was the Captain Killian case.

366
00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:59,060
And I feel very interested in this particular case because I myself was fortunate enough

367
00:23:59,060 --> 00:24:01,660
to play a small part in it.

368
00:24:01,660 --> 00:24:09,420
Captain Killian and five other pilots in 1959 were flying their particular courses and Killian

369
00:24:09,420 --> 00:24:13,340
as a route brought him to Detroit.

370
00:24:13,340 --> 00:24:17,820
The man I interviewed in the middle of the night called out of bed and went over to the

371
00:24:17,820 --> 00:24:22,980
airport to interview him was Captain A.D. Yates.

372
00:24:22,980 --> 00:24:26,460
He had come here from Newark, New Jersey to Cleveland.

373
00:24:26,460 --> 00:24:30,820
And he was very reluctant to mention anything to me at first.

374
00:24:30,820 --> 00:24:35,580
In fact, I was very highly screened by some individuals in the room there.

375
00:24:35,580 --> 00:24:40,860
And later I asked why I wasn't being given the opportunity to interview him.

376
00:24:40,860 --> 00:24:42,900
And they said, well, you haven't enough credentials.

377
00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:46,780
Well, up until then, no one had asked me for any credentials.

378
00:24:46,780 --> 00:24:52,300
So I said, well, if he's the man I think he is, I'll show you just one bit of information

379
00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:54,220
that I think will bring him forth.

380
00:24:54,220 --> 00:24:55,900
This was the NICAP card.

381
00:24:55,900 --> 00:25:02,260
I had many cards with me that I could have shown, but I felt this was adequate.

382
00:25:02,260 --> 00:25:06,540
And then he came out after he had, first of all, asked if I would be willing to answer

383
00:25:06,540 --> 00:25:07,860
three more questions.

384
00:25:07,860 --> 00:25:11,820
Apparently, I answered them to his satisfaction.

385
00:25:11,820 --> 00:25:19,260
And I later learned that this gentleman with 41 other men and women, Air Force people,

386
00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:26,820
I mean pilots and stewardesses, I should say, for commercial lines, were members of a group

387
00:25:26,820 --> 00:25:29,460
down in Newark, New Jersey, something like NICAP.

388
00:25:29,460 --> 00:25:34,660
They were very eager to get this information across to the others in the group, but didn't

389
00:25:34,660 --> 00:25:37,300
want any publicity through the papers.

390
00:25:37,300 --> 00:25:40,060
And he was so afraid that I might be a newspaper reporter.

391
00:25:40,060 --> 00:25:45,500
Well, this was the case where the six pilots flying their different courses had for 45

392
00:25:45,580 --> 00:25:50,460
minutes all seen three objects in the sky.

393
00:25:50,460 --> 00:25:56,700
Later, when Killian came to Detroit, he was videotaped by Frank Edwards, who was with

394
00:25:56,700 --> 00:26:01,540
us here, you remember, a year or two ago, and an NICAP board member.

395
00:26:01,540 --> 00:26:07,220
And this was very interesting because now we have this in-picture form still in his

396
00:26:07,220 --> 00:26:08,860
record of what he stated.

397
00:26:08,860 --> 00:26:14,500
However, he was silenced following that experience by his own plane company because they told

398
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:18,260
him, if you ever mentioned this again publicly, they would fire him.

399
00:26:18,260 --> 00:26:24,100
Now, when the Air Force stated that this was the Belt of Orion, this was a great insult

400
00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:29,140
to these men because after all, flyers certainly know the Belt of Orion.

401
00:26:29,140 --> 00:26:33,900
And then when that didn't gel, they had other explanations.

402
00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:34,900
And so it went.

403
00:26:34,900 --> 00:26:42,980
Now, in February of the 21st, 1958, in Trindade Island down in South America, was a very interesting

404
00:26:42,980 --> 00:26:47,660
case that would take a long time to tell, but photographs were taken.

405
00:26:47,660 --> 00:26:53,020
And Kenneth Hoffman in the local scene we have gone into on occasion, and of course,

406
00:26:53,020 --> 00:26:54,020
I wouldn't want to miss...

407
00:26:54,020 --> 00:26:55,020
This was the minister.

408
00:26:55,020 --> 00:26:58,420
The minister, yes, from the Grace Lutheran Church.

409
00:26:58,420 --> 00:27:03,820
And of course, I wouldn't want to just want to quickly say that in Washington, 1952, was

410
00:27:03,820 --> 00:27:09,060
a great sighting over our nation's capital, and White House, and the Sun Times of Chicago

411
00:27:09,060 --> 00:27:14,340
Daily, had the big screaming headlines, Saucer Fleet on U.S. radar.

412
00:27:14,340 --> 00:27:18,660
Well, we'll get to your questions for my guest both in the studio and on the line coming

413
00:27:18,660 --> 00:27:22,780
up in just a moment on sightings of unidentified flying objects.

414
00:27:22,780 --> 00:27:23,780
Hi.

415
00:27:23,780 --> 00:27:24,780
Hi.

416
00:27:24,780 --> 00:27:25,780
Don't you ever smile?

417
00:27:25,780 --> 00:27:26,780
Only on my new job at Revco.

418
00:27:26,780 --> 00:27:27,780
Lady, I'm Larry O'Leary.

419
00:27:27,780 --> 00:27:28,780
Larry, the Laughers O'Leary.

420
00:27:28,780 --> 00:27:29,780
The world's champion, yes.

421
00:27:29,780 --> 00:27:30,780
Right.

422
00:27:30,780 --> 00:27:40,860
Smacked me in the teeth with the unused portion of any product and I'm in heaven.

423
00:27:40,860 --> 00:27:50,380
In other words, you only smile when people complain and want their money cheerfully refunded?

424
00:27:50,380 --> 00:27:51,380
Right.

425
00:27:51,380 --> 00:27:53,380
A really indignant complaint can be sheer poetry.

426
00:27:53,380 --> 00:27:56,780
Well, how are the complaints going for you at Revco?

427
00:27:56,780 --> 00:27:59,020
No, I'm a little disappointed.

428
00:27:59,020 --> 00:28:03,260
I figured with that great written money back guarantee I'd really get a workout.

429
00:28:03,260 --> 00:28:08,300
But you know, Revco products are manufactured under rigid controls for highest quality and

430
00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:10,900
prices are 30 to 50 percent lower.

431
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:16,100
Revco goes so far out of its way to satisfy people, they're just earning up dissatisfied

432
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:17,980
customers at Revco.

433
00:28:17,980 --> 00:28:20,140
I don't get a chance to fulfill myself.

434
00:28:20,140 --> 00:28:22,140
Oh, it must be very frustrating.

435
00:28:22,140 --> 00:28:27,860
23 minutes now before 11 o'clock, I have a number of questions I'd like to get into

436
00:28:27,860 --> 00:28:31,380
with my guests based on what they've said already, but let me defer to you and take

437
00:28:31,380 --> 00:28:32,380
some of your calls first.

438
00:28:32,380 --> 00:28:33,380
It's 7814515.

439
00:28:33,380 --> 00:28:34,380
There you go.

440
00:28:34,380 --> 00:28:35,380
216, you are in contact.

441
00:28:35,380 --> 00:28:36,380
Go ahead, please.

442
00:28:36,380 --> 00:28:37,380
Yes, I have a question and a statement that I'd like to make.

443
00:28:37,380 --> 00:28:38,380
All right.

444
00:28:38,380 --> 00:28:39,380
And my question is that in one of the November issues of the Time Magazine, it was concerning

445
00:28:39,380 --> 00:28:40,380
with the New York Power Blackout.

446
00:28:40,380 --> 00:28:41,380
Yeah.

447
00:28:41,380 --> 00:28:42,380
In one of the pictures up in the right hand corner, I think it's a little bit of a bit

448
00:28:42,380 --> 00:28:43,380
of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of

449
00:28:43,380 --> 00:28:44,380
bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit

450
00:28:44,380 --> 00:28:45,380
of a bgm.

451
00:28:45,380 --> 00:28:46,380
Let me just interrupt a second.

452
00:28:46,380 --> 00:28:50,960
If anybody at home listening has a copy, this is November 19th issue of 1965, the gentleman's

453
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,900
referring to and it's about page 37.

454
00:28:53,900 --> 00:28:55,120
Go ahead, sir.

455
00:28:55,120 --> 00:29:08,360
Yes, in one of the pictures, I noticed up in the upper left corner, there's an 11.

456
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,360
Go ahead sir.

457
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:19,360
Yes, in one of the pictures, I noticed up in the upper right-hand corner, I think it is, there's an elliptical shaped object.

458
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:25,360
If you have the issue there, it's quite distinguishable from any of the stars.

459
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,360
Yeah, I have it right here in front of me.

460
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,360
Yes, I was wondering if any of your guests were familiar with this.

461
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,360
I know Earl has seen this, I guess, Alan. You and Rick have also seen this.

462
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,360
Yes, we have.

463
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,360
George, are you familiar with the picture the gentleman was talking about?

464
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:51,360
Yes, I'm particularly interested in this viewpoint because of the blackout connection that I have been one of the first groups, I guess, to mention the possible connection and the more probable connection.

465
00:29:51,360 --> 00:30:00,360
Because the number of sites that occurred over New York and Canada, Pennsylvania and New Jersey, which are still coming into my house right here in eastern Pennsylvania,

466
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:10,360
related to the blackout, where not only was this object photographed in Provision Time magazine, but Jet Plains was sent over Manhattan to chase the object.

467
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:18,360
Oh, well this aspect of it, I want to hear from you in just a minute or so. Let me just say, and then hear from my guests what they have to say, that I noticed this two weeks ago,

468
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:28,360
when we did the program of Lawman and Flying Saucers, and I was turning the page and I see this thing which obviously looks like something of a flying saucer nature up there.

469
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:36,360
I've read the caption down below, and there's no mention of it, whatever in the caption, it just says, a view southwest from the Time Life Building, 20 minutes after the blackout, so forth.

470
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:45,360
No mention of this object that jumps off of the page into the middle of your eyeball and you cannot miss it, and yet there's no explanation whatsoever.

471
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:51,360
So I call time in New York City to find out, and I talk to a picture editor up there and I said, well what's the story?

472
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:59,360
Here this picture is and there's obviously something that could be misconstrued perhaps as a flying saucer, no mention of it.

473
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:07,360
He said, well we don't know, you have to ask the photographer. So I tried to get a hold of the photographer, author, Rickerby, and the body did get his number, but I hasten to say, I forgot about it.

474
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:14,360
I meant to call him before the broadcast tonight and did not love to get the story. Now that's my own experience with it, which is nothing. Any of you, Earl?

475
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,360
I can tell you quite a little about it if you let me harm.

476
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,360
I'll let you.

477
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,360
Right.

478
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:29,360
Arthur Rickerby of Life Magazine made this photograph and it was reproduced as we say in time.

479
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:46,360
I guess I was one of the first perhaps to write to him, and I was very pleased to receive from Amy Mushher writing for the editors a very nice three stanza poem, which was not done in duplicate.

480
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:57,360
This was a genuine typewritten little poem and I wish I had brought it with me. It's cute as a dickens, but at the last, the last line says, no, it's not Mars, but Venus.

481
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:15,360
Now, my friend of mine, Mrs. Dean Deal from Lime, Ohio on the November the 14th, mailed me a letter, airmail, and in this on the second paragraph, it says, a pilot, Weldon Ross of Syracuse, New York reported to the Syracuse newspaper,

482
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:29,360
Evening Standard, that on the night of the Northeast blackout at the time the blackout started, he saw, and this is in quotes, a huge fireball over the main clay Niagara power line near clay, New York.

483
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:44,360
He saw flashes of fire. Item continued that clay had earlier been pinpointed as the possible center and source of the electrical failure, but officials had checked it immediately and found no evidence before a pilot made this report.

484
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:57,360
Now, another friend of mine, Mr. Larry Moyers of Akron from the Flying Saucer Investigations Committee there called Mr. Arthur Riccobay and spoke to him on the phone.

485
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:07,360
And Riccobay said, well, it's possible, this is the photographer, he said it's possible it could be a lens refraction, but it wasn't.

486
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,360
Had he noticed it in his negative?

487
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:18,360
No, well, yes, he had noticed in the negative, but he said in answer to a number of questions, it could be this, it could be that, but each time he'd say, but it wasn't.

488
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:32,360
So then Mr. Moyers said, could it have been a UFO? He said, possibly. And then Mr. Moyers said, did you notice this object in the sky when you took this very beautiful shot of the blackout of New York?

489
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:43,360
He said, no, I did not. Then I wrote a letter to Mr. Roger Pangeaquet of Geneva, Switzerland. He was very concerned about this.

490
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:55,360
And later in the evening when we go into this detector, this is the one that he invented, UFO detector, he wrote to me, can you possibly furnish me a copy of this immediately?

491
00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:04,360
So I did, I sent him an entire magazine and he's even photographed it and here's one of the slides he's returned to me and thanking me for it.

492
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:15,360
But he says it's one of the very fine UFOs and is similar to the one he has sent me from both Australia and from Spain. They look identical.

493
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:28,360
How can he, without reservation, say this is one of the finest UFOs? That's a firm, affirmative answer. Now this is a picture and it's easy to say it could be a UFO, but can he say it is?

494
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:41,360
Well, he went into great detail telling that the UFO was an elliptical object and that the force fields coming from it formed the two cones, the one above and the one below.

495
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:48,360
In other words, here's... That's purely supposition though. He doesn't know that. He's saying it could be. It could be force fields. They could be force fields, yes.

496
00:34:48,360 --> 00:35:03,360
But what he is saying is that on numerous occasions UFOs have been spotted, have been photographed and when they were, this particular effect was given like in the one down in Beaver Falls that the eye does not see.

497
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:17,360
Now these force fields apparently are not visible to our human eyes. But it was interesting to me that he said he had picked up four of the magazines in Europe and took them home and he said, I was deceived.

498
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:26,360
They were all black and whites. In other words, this is the Atlantic issue that they get over there and where we have beautiful color in ours, they get them purely in black and white. The copies are the same, however.

499
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:48,360
But I thought it was interesting that this should happen to have aroused his interest. Here's a man who belongs to seven organizations. He writes for the British Flying Saucer Review. He is an engineer. He is the president of the big Panjake company over there in Switzerland and not just a casual observer.

500
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,360
All right, Adlin, you don't think about this same picture?

501
00:35:52,360 --> 00:36:03,360
Well, yes, I'm not going to make any claims for it. Is there isn't. But there's one thing that there is a good claim that there isn't a flying saucer and that is an entangulation and with maps and this is done with coordinate systems.

502
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:08,360
This object indefinitely in all appearances is in the same exact place as the planet Venus.

503
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:09,360
It is?

504
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:10,360
Yes, it is.

505
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,360
The same exact place that Venus was at that night at that time?

506
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:25,360
Yes, but there's one thing. If you look at the lights on the street there, they are blur. And so is the planet Venus. But this looks like, and it all probably is a light refraction of either a light in the street or the planet Venus.

507
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,360
I will not make a claim for it of being a flying saucer.

508
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,360
George Saucer or Rick?

509
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:42,360
I'd like to just say that we had reports here over East and Pennsylvania of objects moving towards New Jersey. Then they flew into New Jersey News that night, had reports of objects moving from there towards New York.

510
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:50,360
Then the sightings by the pilot over at Syracuse, New York and near the power lines where the object was also located by some of the other people on the ground.

511
00:36:50,360 --> 00:37:01,360
And then since that time, sightings have cropped up all up and down the east coast that particular night. And some of these objects not only in the air but very close to the ground, tree top level.

512
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:19,360
And going back into history of blackouts, one occurred back in August 17, 1959 down in Brazil where an engineer radioed in, phoned in to the chief headquarters of the power plant that his sub-station had been put out of action by an unidentified flying object flying over the ground.

513
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:25,360
And in the meantime, he told them that it was headed towards the main plant, the power plant.

514
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:31,360
And the chief engineer went outside and saw it come over and when it came over the power plant, the power was off there for several hours.

515
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:52,360
That was in 1959. Then in 1962, the Air Force submitted their radar and had tracked an object moving from New York all the way out to Utah where it landed outside a power station at Eureka, Utah, and sorted out the power station for at least an hour before they restored power there.

516
00:37:52,360 --> 00:38:03,360
And this was when the object landed nearby and then the object took off and was chased by jet planes out towards California and exploded somewhere above California according to the newspaper reports.

517
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:21,360
George, I'm going to ask you on this. On this specific picture though, in Time Magazine, page 37, November 19, let me just ask you and Rick also, your opinion, based on what you know, based on what you've seen, what information you have, do you think it is an unidentified flying object or a flying saucer?

518
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,360
I have not seen the photograph, my sir, so that lets me up.

519
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:36,360
I myself have not formed any opinion. I have the knowledge that there is sometimes a lens refraction which creates images of this kind.

520
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:50,360
The part that rather confuses me just now is what Alan just mentioned a few moments ago about Venus because I recall earlier, Al, that you had checked the New York skyline, the buildings, etc.

521
00:38:50,360 --> 00:39:01,360
And against the position north, south, east, and so forth. And at that time you had mentioned to me that Venus was close but not there. Have you recently rechecked?

522
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:08,360
No. It was in that vicinity, or the elevation of this picture being taken has to be taken in effect. It could all probably have been this.

523
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,360
I was just wondering what your change of...

524
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,360
And you know, many pictures, we've got many pictures on our files that show light refractions, claiming it's UFO.

525
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:15,360
That look like this.

526
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,360
Right, but then again, some that you do photograph that do look like this picture.

527
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:26,360
Exactly. I don't know for a while myself if it is a genuine UFO or not. I was merely reporting what I had learned from Switzerland.

528
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:27,360
Rick, what do you think?

529
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:32,360
Well, I tell you, along with the Elm Annik, I believe that it is a planet Venus. I'd also like to ask...

530
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:33,360
That large?

531
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:40,360
Well, since it was a time exposure, Earl, now you have to take that into consideration now. If you'll notice the window lights were blurred.

532
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:45,360
And some of the auto headlights were blurred. And also the object could have been blurred.

533
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:51,360
And since it is quite a bright light source, it's possible that it could appear to be a UFO.

534
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,360
I tend to agree with Al that it is Venus.

535
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:57,360
Do you agree, though, that it's a jet plane on the next page?

536
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,360
Definitely. It's either a helicopter, a jet plane, I'm not sure.

537
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,360
Did you see that, Earl?

538
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:04,360
Now, sit up closer. Go ahead, Rick.

539
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,360
Yeah, I'd like to ask George for a set of questions. George?

540
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:07,360
Yes.

541
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:13,360
Now, you mentioned that on the night of the Blackout, you had received reports from New Jersey and Pennsylvania.

542
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,360
Now, what sources do these come from, from people calling in your group or what?

543
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:27,360
Some of these sources were the first one, the original one, was of two young boys who reported a large, round, reddish-orange object to the voice of the people.

544
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,360
WST radio here in eastern Pennsylvania.

545
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:36,360
And they said it was moving towards the east and towards the New Jersey, towards Filmsburg, New Jersey.

546
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:45,360
Then, from the newspaper account that appeared in the Flimington, New Jersey newspaper, a couple of days later, a couple reported that they had watched an object that night,

547
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,360
just proud to, and doing the Blackout, moving towards New York.

548
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,360
And this was headed towards New York in a more or less direct, straight line.

549
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:59,360
Now, it seemed to have been directed also towards Syracuse in that direction near the...

550
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,360
I can't think right now the name of the airport there, but I know that there are power lines.

551
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:10,360
In fact, the pilot himself reported that he saw the object, and he was sure the object was very near the power lines running into New York.

552
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,360
All right, we're going to move along. Take that next call at 7814515.

553
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:19,360
If you're calling long distance, the area code 216, sightings of unidentified flying objects.

554
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,360
This is Harold Morgan. You're in contact. Go ahead, please.

555
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,360
May we have your question, please?

556
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:32,360
Yes, sir. I have a question on this object that I have spotted on several occasions.

557
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:36,360
And I was wondering if possibly one of the gentlemen there in the studio could help me out.

558
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:41,360
Yes, sir. I'll take that call. What did the object look like, and when did you first see it?

559
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:46,360
Well, actually, I've seen it over a long period of months since last summer.

560
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,360
What did it appear like, sir?

561
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:52,360
Well, to the naked eye, it just looks like a giant bright star.

562
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,360
Where do you see it?

563
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,360
Actually, it's in the northeast part of the sky.

564
00:41:58,360 --> 00:41:59,360
And where do you live?

565
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:07,360
I live on the west side, and upon looking at it with the naked eye, it looks like a real bright star.

566
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:18,360
But I have observed it with powerful binoculars and a telescope, and under observation in this manner, it has a red light,

567
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:26,360
and it flashes. And then, on other times when I have observed this object, it is just a constant red light.

568
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,360
And you say this is in the northeast, you see this object?

569
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:31,360
Right, in the northeast.

570
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,360
It's just a stationary object?

571
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:35,360
Yes.

572
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:36,360
And you've viewed it too?

573
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:43,360
This is the thing that is very puzzling to me. It remains stationary, so it couldn't be a plane or a weather satellite or anything else.

574
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,360
What time of the night do you see this object, sir?

575
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:51,360
Well, I've observed it many different times. I've seen this not one time, I've seen it numerous times.

576
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:58,360
Now, my next door neighbor is a member of many UFO organizations. He's an active member.

577
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,360
Well, what is the elevation of the object? Can you give that?

578
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,360
Well, see, that's hard to say really.

579
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,360
Well, see, there isn't quite no...

580
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:06,360
It's a hundred feet, though.

581
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,360
For me, it would be hard to judge, but it would be several hundred feet.

582
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,360
Do you mean any given night? You can go out there and there it is?

583
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:17,360
No, not any given night, but I have seen it on different nights and at different times of the night.

584
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:23,360
Well, sir, when you see it the next time, you call 234-0861 and we'll try to get a triangulation on the object.

585
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:29,360
And right now, I can see that there's nothing there. There's no star. That's that bright in that northeastern sky right now.

586
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:34,360
If it was overhead, I would call it the planet Jupiter, but even a star's move, you know, fifteen degrees an hour.

587
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,360
What does your next door neighbor say about it?

588
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:37,360
Has you seen it?

589
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:38,360
Pardon me?

590
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:39,360
Has you seen it?

591
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:45,360
Yes, many times I've seen it and I went to the door and got him outside with me and he is the one that has the telescope.

592
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,360
And you see it through the telescope?

593
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:54,360
Yes, we have observed it and because it is so luminous, so bright, you can't determine any definite shape to it.

594
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:55,360
I see, all right.

595
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,360
And he has taken this information to meetings with him and...

596
00:43:58,360 --> 00:43:59,360
Which meetings?

597
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,360
Well, he's a member of APRO and...

598
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,360
Yes, we have meetings locally here once a month.

599
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:11,360
Every third Saturday at the Congress savings bank building in Plama.

600
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,360
Well, I don't believe it has been with a national...

601
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:14,360
Well, this is...

602
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:18,360
...the northern hemisphere. This has been a local club of which there are probably twenty or thirty members.

603
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:25,360
All right, so I'd like to have you call 234-0861. The next time you see this object and we'll put a triangulation on it. We also have telescopes.

604
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:26,360
I see.

605
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:34,360
All right, so thank you very much for calling. The number 7814515. We'll take that next call coming up on sightings of UFOs in just a moment.

606
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:43,360
Some guys have it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some guys never will.

607
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:50,360
Some guys have it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some guys never will.

608
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:58,360
Yardly, yardly, black label, disabled.

609
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:04,360
Some guys never will.

610
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:11,360
Some guys never will.

611
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:21,360
Some guys never will.

612
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:28,360
Go where the action is with black label after she feels like a flunging surf like cool like

613
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:34,360
a live slap it on she'll get the message hardly black label for guys who've got it.

614
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,360
Six minutes now before 11 o'clock if you're calling long distance especially those of you

615
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:44,360
let me throw out the invitation tonight and then you've the 30 odd states that received

616
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:51,360
the signal of WKYC that if you in your own locale have seen or heard of close second

617
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,360
hand information about sightings of your own let us know tonight perhaps there are sightings

618
00:45:55,360 --> 00:46:00,360
that we have not heard of especially I guess we very few or at least I've heard of very

619
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:06,360
few sightings down around the central south like Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee any of

620
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,360
you down there who have seen something let us know about it maybe we can correlate some

621
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:15,360
information with members of NYCAP and Cleveland Ufology project and editors of UFO magazine

622
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,360
that we have here in the studio as well as George Bossette on the line.

623
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:23,360
Let's have that next call at 7814515 I didn't mention if you are calling long distance it's

624
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,360
216 this is Harv Morgan you're in contact.

625
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:32,360
Does the UFO ever try to capture or shoot down these unidentified flying objects?

626
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,360
Does the UFO try and shoot them down?

627
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:35,360
UFO.

628
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:40,360
Well you mean a UFO is an unidentified flying object you mean does it try to shoot each

629
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,360
other down or what are you talking about?

630
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:50,360
Well the people that the companies that are in charge of it to send up planes.

631
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,360
You mean as the US government ever tried to shoot them down?

632
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:54,360
Yeah.

633
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:59,360
I can answer that question the US government had a shoot down order in 1952 but as far as

634
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,360
we're concerned they never brought one down.

635
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:07,360
Many people we have many cases where the object itself is proving to be a metallic or a material

636
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:14,360
object was hit with bullets and also it debris that time but as far as they ever brought one

637
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,360
down we have no answer.

638
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,360
I was just going to say I was talking to the Air Force man just recently he's still in the

639
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:25,360
force and I naturally won't mention his name or where he lives but I happen to be in contact

640
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:30,360
with him and he said that the president is absolutely true that they are supposed to take

641
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:35,360
their planes and hover over them and do whatever they can to get one right down and examine

642
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:36,360
it of course.

643
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,360
This is a ridiculous thing to do.

644
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:43,360
By the way I might mention that speaking of these UFOs and their metallic substance and

645
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,360
so forth when Major Keel was here on the Mike Douglas show last year he made a statement

646
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:53,360
and it was printed in the Cleveland plane dealer and I had forgotten this but Nicholas Nester

647
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:58,360
sent me this proof and I just got it in time for tonight's show and on the plane dealer's

648
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:05,360
Monday August 10th 1964 page 18 he said this Keel was saying in his pursuit of UFO information

649
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:09,360
Keel said he found the object can fly about 9,000 miles an hour that they are made of a

650
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:15,360
strange metal capable of evaporating and that traces of radioactivity have been discovered

651
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,360
where the ships were said to have landed.

652
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:23,360
Now with all this in mind and the interest of the Air Force here is a statement credited

653
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:28,360
to the Air Force by a writer of the Associated Press and I have this before me this was last

654
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,360
April this thing came down.

655
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,360
He said the conclusion of the Air Force is there is no evidence that there are alien

656
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:40,360
interplanetary space vehicles under some form of intelligent control landing in the USA.

657
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:46,360
Now as you know the Air Force conning us on this you mean the Air Force really believes

658
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,360
that there are no such things as flying saucers?

659
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:56,360
No they don't. There is Air Force regulation 200-2. There is Janet 146B which is the joint

660
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:02,360
Army Navy Air Force publications and I personally know I was in the Air Force and I know personal

661
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:06,360
friends that are still in the Air Force and that we are high officers and there is definitely

662
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:10,360
something there and they are definitely concerned about it and they are definitely gathering

663
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:15,360
material which is called Project Blue Book on the Wright-Patterson field right today.

664
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:20,360
As a matter of fact in this respect let me mention that earlier as I mentioned that McKinley

665
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,360
Cantor the author of Andersonville will be on the program during the course of the last

666
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:29,360
hour I talked to him earlier in the day reporting that he has seen a flying saucer. He also passes

667
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:33,360
along some quite interesting information about the just recently retired Air Force General

668
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:40,360
Curtis LeMay and the statements that General LeMay had made sort of off the record to McKinley

669
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:45,360
Cantor and I think that will surprise you. It certainly surprised me, a retired Air Force

670
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,360
General making some of the statements he did concerning flying saucers. Our time is just

671
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,360
about up for right now. We will have time to take more calls. We will take more calls than ever

672
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,360
during the course of the next hour here on Contact. If you would like to be reserving your place on the

673
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:05,360
line the number is 7814515. The area code for those of you calling long distance is 216.

674
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,360
We are trying something different tomorrow night. Let me just take a moment that I have here to

675
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:14,360
remind you about it. Of course frequently on Friday nights we have a sound off contact. When you

676
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:19,360
get a chance to call in and sound off on well virtually anything you'd like to talk about. I won't argue

677
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,360
with you all the time. Sometimes we'll get into a devil's advocate position on just to be ornery

678
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:27,360
taking the outside of something that you'd like to talk about. But tomorrow night we'll try something

679
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:33,360
a little bit different. Contact, contacts you portion. Oh yes we'll be taking some of your calls

680
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:37,360
as usual. You can call in tomorrow night but we'll also be making some calls to those of you who

681
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:42,360
over the course of the past years have been dropping us some mail and maybe voicing some strong

682
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:47,360
opinions. We'll be calling some of you who have been writing in tomorrow night. Sort of a reverse

683
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:52,360
contact. Sounding you out on what you had to write about. That's tomorrow night here on Contact.

684
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:57,360
We'll get back together with Rick Hilberg, George Fossette and Alan Manick and Earl Naff and being

685
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:04,360
joined very shortly by WKYC weatherman Ken Goodman. Back together following the news at 7814515

686
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:09,360
on WKYC Cleveland, Ohio NBC in Cleveland. It's 11 o'clock.

687
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:18,360
WKYC in Cleveland, Cleveland, Cleveland, Cleveland.

688
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:38,360
The number is 7814515. Ufology 1966. Well he's going to replace Mark and Howard when they go on vacation I guess.

689
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:45,360
Yes. Thank you Ken. And we'll have another Ken join us very soon on the UFO program here tonight.

690
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:50,360
Ken Goodman WKYC weatherman will be dropping in with an experience that happened to him a number of years ago

691
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:56,360
and I found it quite amazing, quite moving. We'll also be listening to Mr. McKinley Cantor, the author of

692
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:03,360
Andersonville and the author of the Newer book that came out a few months ago, the story of General Curtis LeMay.

693
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:09,360
Right now let's take some calls for my guests, Earl Naff, Alan Manick, Rick Hilberg and on the contact line to

694
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:16,360
Pennsylvania, Mr. George Fossett. Let's have that next caller. 7814515 puts you in contact.

695
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:17,360
Hello? Yes.

696
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:22,360
First of all I'd like to say that this question was directed to any member of the panel tonight.

697
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:23,360
Okay.

698
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:31,360
Well on your previous contact shows on UFO, the description has been, most many of them have had the description of a

699
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:38,360
force field, whether it be magnetic or ionized or something like that. And when people see these, I'd like to know

700
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,360
what does a force field look like?

701
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,360
What does a force field look like? Well can you see it, isn't it?

702
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:46,360
No, no, no.

703
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:54,360
Well on your, one of your previous shows you had a woman think it's from North Carolina somewhere, said she saw an ionized force field.

704
00:52:54,360 --> 00:53:04,360
This was, this was a Madeleine road of her from Silver Spring, Maryland and she was seeing quite a number of things that night I think.

705
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:05,360
Yes.

706
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:11,360
In fact I've never seen some of the things that I asked to see that night as I recall. We asked her to send us some information, some pictures and all like this and she

707
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,360
you know, because she wouldn't, she never had it.

708
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:21,360
I've written her several letters with enclosed stamped address, don lopes and all, but have never received anything and frankly I don't know when a person is

709
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:26,360
telling something like she was telling last night why she wouldn't support it with positive evidence.

710
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:27,360
Rick?

711
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:44,360
Well this is Rodefer, express the opinion that UFOs come from underground caves and the man who started this all, his name is Richard Shaver and he started it in one of the science fiction magazines in the 40s and curiously enough this man was in a mental institution.

712
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,360
So I wouldn't put too much stock into that story.

713
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:57,360
I heard this from other sources though that there are some people who yes indeed believe that they've only come from under the earth but there's one theory isn't it, that they come, there was a whole civilization under the north pole.

714
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,360
That's the doctor Bernard.

715
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:01,360
Bernard yes.

716
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:07,360
It's the same thing as Shaver, Deros and Demos and whatever.

717
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:08,360
Who does that know either?

718
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,360
All right so does that answer your question?

719
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:11,360
Yes sir, thanks very much.

720
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:12,360
Yes George?

721
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,360
Let me interrupt just one second.

722
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:34,360
I think it's not so important sometimes what people see is what happens when the objects are around related to force fields where people report as I've mentioned earlier programs heat burns, electric shock, temporary paralysis, dam and evasion, the loss of the ability to swallow properly, complete blackouts at times.

723
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:41,360
Because of being too near these objects, even above the automobiles and the sky overhead, are you on the ground?

724
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:56,360
As far as the blackouts of the lights and the dimouts of the radios, we've heard a great deal about this but are you satisfied as youthful investigators that these things actually happen Alan?

725
00:54:56,360 --> 00:55:03,360
Yes it has definitely proved that it has happened when UFO activity was in the area especially low UFOs.

726
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:10,360
In one case they broke the headlines in the Cleveland papers here and very large headlines in the Hallman Air Base in 1957.

727
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:14,360
This was heard around the country and in fact around the world where it stopped many automobiles.

728
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:15,360
Is that right?

729
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:19,360
Yes sir, at least there were 40 of them I guess and people were standing out there watching.

730
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:34,360
I think that if I recall correctly the newscaster here was telling me just recently when he came in near the studio before we were on the air that what his name was down at 11 o'clock at night on television.

731
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:35,360
Oh, on our station?

732
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:36,360
Virgil Downey.

733
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:48,360
Yes, Virgil was telling me that when he was in the service he saw a man who had, his car had stalled and several cars ahead of this gentleman had stalled as well.

734
00:55:48,360 --> 00:56:02,360
And this man was interrogated at great length and by the time the day was over he was then hospitalized and he said if he'd ever see one of these or had his auto affected by one of these again he'd never report it.

735
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:08,360
Sure, let's do a front-end as many calls as possible in the next few minutes so we can play that interview that I had earlier today with Mr. McKinnon to Catterl.

736
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,360
Mrs. Harold Morgan, you're in contact. Go ahead please.

737
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:41,360
Yes, I'd like to know the names of several U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller U-Foller

738
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:49,980
May, when I was interested, May, write Cleevin UFology project at 6434 Emery Drive, EMORY Drive

739
00:56:49,980 --> 00:56:54,580
6434 Emery Drive Cleevin 44142

740
00:56:55,020 --> 00:57:00,360
And we'll be glad to mail you out some free literature and tell you about our publication and also our meeting place and what takes place at our meetings.

741
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,100
We have fine films and slides, many lectures.

742
00:57:03,100 --> 00:57:04,960
Any other organizations, Rick?

743
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,720
summer the third annual congress of scientific ufologists will be held in

744
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:09,680
cleveland

745
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,280
uh... you might uh... the listeners i hope will mark this on their calendar

746
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:17,280
because on june twenty-fifth from two p m two eleven p m

747
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,280
at the valley for senior high school auditorium

748
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:23,700
we will have people lecturing from all parts of the country mister gray

749
00:57:23,700 --> 00:57:24,700
barker

750
00:57:24,700 --> 00:57:27,040
uh... author of the best-selling book

751
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:30,680
uh... mister jim moseley the editor of sauce news mister gordon evans well

752
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:31,680
known new york

753
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:33,560
science and you fall lecture

754
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:37,080
and if you're interested in receiving information about the congress as to the

755
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:38,040
dates

756
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:40,040
uh... time and prices

757
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:44,280
just uh... right to post office box twenty seven oh eight two seven oh eight

758
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:45,760
cleveland eleven

759
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:49,760
for all about uh... any organization well i'd i'd like to be when you mention

760
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,920
jim's mostly here i don't know if i should take the time right now i guess

761
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,200
many calls is possible right now we get into what i know you want to do

762
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,800
like that's a good organization in washington fifteen thirty six connecticut

763
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:03,720
avenue northwest fifteen thirty six thirty six connecticut avenue

764
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:09,120
washington thirty six dc and all you put down our capital letters and i see a p

765
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:09,960
price

766
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:13,300
but let's just put down the letter seven eight one four five one five and that

767
00:58:13,300 --> 00:58:16,560
puts you in contact right now go ahead please

768
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:20,680
uh... i heard it when it comes to the full of the effort taken on the moon from

769
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:22,880
observatory overworld at

770
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:25,440
they have from actually uh...

771
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:26,440
the important

772
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:28,920
uh... for the great activity of the moon from

773
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,320
officers

774
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:32,440
that maybe

775
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,160
sometimes they have for a great fleet of thoughts of the moon

776
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:36,040
and um...

777
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:37,160
that the moon

778
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:39,440
to the news of the base by other

779
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:41,740
things might have been before we ever

780
00:58:41,740 --> 00:58:45,600
had the intention of photographing the moon or studying about it too

781
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:49,400
there was never actually any saucers seen on the moon uh... some there were

782
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,680
claims of some from amateur

783
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:55,440
uh... strong as but the actual strong or ht wilkins of england

784
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:59,280
uh... his job was nothing more than the moon and he has made uh... very many

785
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:00,480
calculations

786
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,160
uh... professor and jesset past professor

787
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:07,040
uh... made a lot of us are studies on the moon and there is to be activity but

788
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:07,940
uh... it is

789
00:59:07,940 --> 00:59:09,840
unconfirmed yet as to what it is

790
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:11,880
provably activity yes

791
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:15,840
proved to be activity well activity as far as light sources are different ways

792
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:19,800
are creators being either produced or shattered or something taking place on

793
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:21,600
the moon yet which could be natural

794
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:25,040
not right rather than than uh... manner creature made for now right

795
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:26,760
right absolutely

796
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,040
are you pretty well collected all four of you

797
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:34,360
semi-satisfied that no there's no life on the moon no you're not satisfied

798
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:35,320
no

799
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:39,160
that's right now i don't believe that any life is we know it and by the way this

800
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,920
is what the news media covers all the time you'll let me say

801
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,160
life as we know it well we don't know about life as we don't know it but this is

802
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:46,560
only supposition

803
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:49,520
but uh... as far as uh... life as we know it

804
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:52,480
well we're gonna be on the moon someday and as we know it from some other world

805
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:53,360
could be there now

806
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:57,600
but with all of the the photographic evidence we've had from

807
00:59:57,600 --> 00:59:58,480
the moon

808
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:02,380
that shows no sign of life as we do or don't know it

809
01:00:02,380 --> 01:00:05,920
or no conditions where life could prevail as we do or don't know it

810
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:07,040
well we're still not satisfied

811
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:11,160
no we're not because there's just too much and also that back part of the moon

812
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:13,560
with the two-thirds that we do not see

813
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:17,900
uh... and now with the bridge uh... and the bridge uh... well there's

814
01:00:17,900 --> 01:00:20,860
a lot of controversy on that bridge it could be either a natural phenomena or

815
01:00:20,860 --> 01:00:22,660
somebody that was formed there because

816
01:00:22,660 --> 01:00:26,060
i guess uh... during the studies of this uh... moon and they've been studying it

817
01:00:26,060 --> 01:00:29,140
for two or three hundred years now two two hundred fifty years

818
01:00:29,140 --> 01:00:30,220
and uh...

819
01:00:30,220 --> 01:00:34,020
there's certain spots that are appearing on the moon which shouldn't be

820
01:00:34,020 --> 01:00:37,540
well i just like to mention that even the task well if that life which is uh...

821
01:00:37,540 --> 01:00:40,820
maybe up to three or four hundred uh... five hundred miles up

822
01:00:40,820 --> 01:00:43,660
according to several photographs that they have taken they've found no it's

823
01:00:43,660 --> 01:00:46,060
a life on the home plate yet and

824
01:00:46,060 --> 01:00:51,020
these moon quotes which has gone down to the south land is if you can believe everything the Russians say

825
01:00:51,020 --> 01:00:55,020
it's too early to say because remember they said the same thing about the matter of four

826
01:00:55,020 --> 01:00:56,980
first of no life no canals

827
01:00:56,980 --> 01:01:01,020
uh... it's just not the right place for life and yet just recently this has been

828
01:01:01,020 --> 01:01:05,100
reputed by many astronomers a particular colloquial convoin

829
01:01:05,100 --> 01:01:07,580
who says that uh... he has discovered

830
01:01:07,580 --> 01:01:11,780
uh... in the photographs the canals that were long years ago sketched by astronomers

831
01:01:11,780 --> 01:01:15,980
through their own personal observations because Ellen said there was much controversy about this

832
01:01:15,980 --> 01:01:17,740
well let's get to the next call

833
01:01:17,740 --> 01:01:21,060
7814515 puts you in contact

834
01:01:21,060 --> 01:01:22,180
go ahead please

835
01:01:22,180 --> 01:01:23,180
hello

836
01:01:23,180 --> 01:01:26,420
i would like to ask this

837
01:01:26,420 --> 01:01:31,380
since the Air Force hasn't made any statements concerning the presence of UFOs

838
01:01:31,380 --> 01:01:33,740
could it possibly be

839
01:01:33,740 --> 01:01:37,460
that these sightings are being conducted by our country

840
01:01:37,460 --> 01:01:40,900
and maybe for some reason the government isn't ready

841
01:01:40,900 --> 01:01:42,500
to be decent

842
01:01:42,500 --> 01:01:47,700
any information because it seems to me the Air Force must know or it doesn't know

843
01:01:47,700 --> 01:01:49,140
and if it doesn't know

844
01:01:49,140 --> 01:01:51,180
maybe it doesn't want to admit it

845
01:01:51,180 --> 01:01:58,420
well they've made statements as far as that goes the statement is that uh... to their knowledge there is no such thing as a flying saucer

846
01:01:58,420 --> 01:02:01,580
I mean this is a paraphrase but in essence that's what they mean

847
01:02:01,580 --> 01:02:03,180
but i know they have

848
01:02:03,180 --> 01:02:04,860
have said that

849
01:02:04,860 --> 01:02:06,220
and uh...

850
01:02:06,220 --> 01:02:10,060
I don't like fields where they have one of the big

851
01:02:10,060 --> 01:02:13,820
yes well we believe here at the Cleveland Uphology Project especially in

852
01:02:13,820 --> 01:02:18,820
uh... you can take a nightcap at American UFO committee and the rest of the major organizations of the country

853
01:02:18,820 --> 01:02:23,020
um... that we actually feel that there is enough information now

854
01:02:23,020 --> 01:02:24,020
to be said

855
01:02:24,020 --> 01:02:25,340
one way or the other

856
01:02:25,340 --> 01:02:28,580
that as far as they're admitting it they will not admit it openly

857
01:02:28,580 --> 01:02:29,620
but uh...

858
01:02:29,620 --> 01:02:34,060
I can't say secret either because there's too much documented evidence too many people we know

859
01:02:34,060 --> 01:02:35,900
too many things too many regulations

860
01:02:35,900 --> 01:02:41,020
the point is this the well and that they could could be these flying saucers be our own experiments

861
01:02:41,020 --> 01:02:41,900
no

862
01:02:41,900 --> 01:02:43,940
we shoot them down if they were

863
01:02:43,940 --> 01:02:45,740
have we shot them down that we know

864
01:02:45,740 --> 01:02:46,240
of

865
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:52,040
i mean would we have a shoot down order to shoot them down if they were our own and if they're our own

866
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:57,340
uh... we've only been off the ground some sixty years on the right brothers got us off the ground in planes

867
01:02:57,340 --> 01:03:00,720
and these have been seen for many many many years right

868
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:04,180
I think we could be totally shoot them down if it wasn't i mean

869
01:03:04,180 --> 01:03:07,180
i mean we don't shoot our own people down

870
01:03:07,180 --> 01:03:09,060
who knows if any people in them

871
01:03:09,060 --> 01:03:15,100
well in this kind of government that we have it's hard enough to keep a secret as almost uh... any political party can tell you in a

872
01:03:15,100 --> 01:03:20,520
secret like this if it were being engaged in by our government is administration's change from

873
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:24,660
republican to democrat and so forth and the reporters being as nosy as they are

874
01:03:24,660 --> 01:03:28,820
I have to say that purely a personal opinion that would be virtually impossible

875
01:03:28,820 --> 01:03:30,060
for this government

876
01:03:30,060 --> 01:03:31,660
to keep something under wraps

877
01:03:31,660 --> 01:03:34,380
uh... that long it was miracle enough that

878
01:03:34,380 --> 01:03:37,300
the Manhattan Project the uh... atomic bomb

879
01:03:37,300 --> 01:03:42,300
was kept a secret for the brief comparatively brief part of time that it was

880
01:03:42,300 --> 01:03:45,460
too many blabbermouths and too many political acts is to grind between the two parties

881
01:03:45,460 --> 01:03:51,180
well you know i i'm on the issue of things i'm not talking against them i'd like to let them see them because they really

882
01:03:51,180 --> 01:03:54,780
could scare the dickens out of me sometimes and

883
01:03:54,780 --> 01:03:55,580
uh... there is this

884
01:03:55,580 --> 01:04:00,020
I just went through my mind though could it be our own or security reasons or maybe

885
01:04:00,020 --> 01:04:02,380
I don't know that uh...

886
01:04:02,380 --> 01:04:04,900
they're not our own because they've been

887
01:04:04,900 --> 01:04:08,140
they've been watching these uh... these actual records go back and

888
01:04:08,140 --> 01:04:09,740
as far back as we can permit

889
01:04:09,740 --> 01:04:14,340
and the same kind the same type of sightings are explained the same way in the science and

890
01:04:14,340 --> 01:04:17,620
so-called top men of the world at that time

891
01:04:17,620 --> 01:04:21,260
all proved that these things don't exist yet this is before our country is even born

892
01:04:21,260 --> 01:04:23,540
well one time the air force uh...

893
01:04:23,540 --> 01:04:25,340
tried to claim that they uh...

894
01:04:25,340 --> 01:04:29,380
they had the UFOs they were government weapons this was about in nineteen fifty five

895
01:04:29,380 --> 01:04:31,700
i think it was in u.s. news and world report

896
01:04:31,700 --> 01:04:35,660
they broke a story saying that soon the air force will have flying saucers

897
01:04:35,660 --> 01:04:39,580
and the craft uh... depicted with the saucer shaped object with some sort of

898
01:04:39,580 --> 01:04:43,700
uh... louvers on it and it said it would fly at all kinds of speeds and altitudes

899
01:04:43,700 --> 01:04:47,540
and in about nineteen fifty nine when the thing was finally developed by the avro

900
01:04:47,540 --> 01:04:48,420
company

901
01:04:48,420 --> 01:04:52,100
and later by uh... believe any c a scientist only got about two feet off the

902
01:04:52,100 --> 01:04:54,620
ground to be able to get a few inches

903
01:04:54,620 --> 01:04:56,300
it could have got about the curve

904
01:04:56,300 --> 01:04:57,820
wheeler on the hanger every day

905
01:04:57,820 --> 01:04:58,820
it got off the ground

906
01:04:58,820 --> 01:05:02,900
what's the next call of the grant seven eight one four five one five that puts

907
01:05:02,900 --> 01:05:04,660
you in contact

908
01:05:04,660 --> 01:05:05,860
go ahead please

909
01:05:05,860 --> 01:05:09,380
you have in the studio a couple of gentlemen who are members of the

910
01:05:09,380 --> 01:05:11,100
cleveland u-project

911
01:05:11,100 --> 01:05:13,380
yes and i would like to know

912
01:05:13,380 --> 01:05:15,500
what they have done to help

913
01:05:15,500 --> 01:05:19,460
my cap on that campus beyond the organization of the thing to bring this

914
01:05:19,460 --> 01:05:23,700
before the public by holding open congressional hearings

915
01:05:23,700 --> 01:05:27,180
and uh... the organization trying to bring this before the public uh...

916
01:05:27,180 --> 01:05:29,620
aren't any of the other organizations uh...

917
01:05:29,620 --> 01:05:30,900
uh... advocating that

918
01:05:30,900 --> 01:05:34,780
and not that i know of

919
01:05:34,780 --> 01:05:37,540
i disagree with your point sir go ahead

920
01:05:37,540 --> 01:05:38,620
what's your point sir

921
01:05:38,620 --> 01:05:42,620
i would like to know what these days there is an article appearing in the saucer news

922
01:05:42,620 --> 01:05:45,100
from nineteen sixty six issue

923
01:05:45,100 --> 01:05:48,300
where one of the members alamemic

924
01:05:48,300 --> 01:05:51,020
is a uh... signatory of the article

925
01:05:51,020 --> 01:05:54,300
this is james mosley edition

926
01:05:54,300 --> 01:05:57,140
right now just for the benefit of our listeners who are not uh... flying

927
01:05:57,140 --> 01:06:00,660
saucer rights this is also uses what this is the official publication of the

928
01:06:00,660 --> 01:06:04,140
saucer and unexplained selects your events research society with the sounds

929
01:06:04,140 --> 01:06:06,500
impressive and i'm not going to think about the saucer news

930
01:06:06,500 --> 01:06:08,820
isn't that a private organization

931
01:06:08,820 --> 01:06:12,980
and this is a private publication by james mosley if i'm not mistaken in my

932
01:06:12,980 --> 01:06:16,580
ideas yes the correct me if i know the organization is a local new york group

933
01:06:16,580 --> 01:06:19,220
but the uh... publication is actually separate

934
01:06:19,220 --> 01:06:22,860
but if you read my name under their friend you've noticed the other the other

935
01:06:22,860 --> 01:06:26,300
names of the two and we're all banding together this is something new

936
01:06:26,300 --> 01:06:27,940
it took two years to form this

937
01:06:27,940 --> 01:06:30,780
no one's ever done this and we're trying to do it we're going to try to form this

938
01:06:30,780 --> 01:06:32,060
group together

939
01:06:32,060 --> 01:06:35,660
and we're publishing information this is the main purpose of it

940
01:06:35,660 --> 01:06:37,540
is giving this information to the public

941
01:06:37,540 --> 01:06:41,940
this is not answering my question my question is what have you as leader of

942
01:06:41,940 --> 01:06:46,300
the cleven your father's project done to help make up all we can do is forward

943
01:06:46,300 --> 01:06:49,060
the information across to make up and that's what we're doing

944
01:06:49,060 --> 01:06:53,580
what i have personally done through the many years as a member of my cap from

945
01:06:53,580 --> 01:06:55,380
its uh... inception

946
01:06:55,380 --> 01:07:00,020
is work very closely with major keyhole in fact major key was even turned

947
01:07:00,020 --> 01:07:04,060
lectures over to me when he couldn't keep them which is a great honors to me

948
01:07:04,060 --> 01:07:04,940
personally

949
01:07:04,940 --> 01:07:08,820
uh... seems to me that we must move along here on uh... in terms of time we have

950
01:07:08,820 --> 01:07:12,060
so much left that would like to broadcast here tonight one of the access to

951
01:07:12,060 --> 01:07:15,380
grind it seems to let's clear away some of the clouds and get down to what we're

952
01:07:15,380 --> 01:07:16,500
talking about

953
01:07:16,500 --> 01:07:19,180
one of the items in this uh... magazine

954
01:07:19,180 --> 01:07:20,460
suggests

955
01:07:20,460 --> 01:07:24,140
uh... if i read this correctly that the seven thousand five hundred dollars a

956
01:07:24,140 --> 01:07:29,420
year paid by nackab two major keyhole might better be spent elsewhere

957
01:07:29,420 --> 01:07:33,260
that uh... major keyhole perhaps is outlived is usefulness as far as nackab

958
01:07:33,260 --> 01:07:36,660
is concerned and let's take this money and give it to somebody else to uh...

959
01:07:36,660 --> 01:07:38,020
do a more active

960
01:07:38,020 --> 01:07:41,500
uh... job is this uh... proper representation of the essence of the

961
01:07:41,500 --> 01:07:42,380
suggestion

962
01:07:42,380 --> 01:07:47,380
uh... yes that's what i have in mind but my question is this

963
01:07:47,380 --> 01:07:51,100
uh... what have these members contributed financially to nackab now i am

964
01:07:51,100 --> 01:07:55,060
very well acquainted with nackab i know the job that nackab is trying to do i

965
01:07:55,060 --> 01:07:58,900
know the sacrifices of major keyhole that is made

966
01:07:58,900 --> 01:08:03,020
uh... to help this along and where would nackab be without major keyhole

967
01:08:03,020 --> 01:08:06,940
where would nackab be without the people

968
01:08:06,940 --> 01:08:10,460
uh... major keyhole has dedicated himself

969
01:08:10,460 --> 01:08:12,260
uh... for many many years

970
01:08:12,260 --> 01:08:15,740
i don't know that if you get seventy five cents a year or seven thousand five

971
01:08:15,740 --> 01:08:19,260
hundred and i'm not concerned he's done a tremendous job he used to be in five

972
01:08:19,260 --> 01:08:21,340
figures and he's taken an awful beating

973
01:08:21,340 --> 01:08:23,180
he's been to the youthful what

974
01:08:23,180 --> 01:08:25,140
billy mitchell was to the plane

975
01:08:25,140 --> 01:08:29,100
right i'm sorry we can't get more deeply into this uh... right

976
01:08:29,100 --> 01:08:32,900
let i guess among certain uh... people involved with flying saucer but we do

977
01:08:32,900 --> 01:08:36,420
have so very much to do yet tonight i'm very sorry so we must take the next

978
01:08:36,420 --> 01:08:38,300
call because we have two more things to more

979
01:08:38,300 --> 01:08:39,580
major items to bring you

980
01:08:39,580 --> 01:08:41,820
let's have a nice call this is our morning contact

981
01:08:41,820 --> 01:08:44,660
uh... i was reading several years ago

982
01:08:44,660 --> 01:08:48,020
in a book i believe by major keyhole

983
01:08:48,020 --> 01:08:52,140
referring to an incident uh... in the western half of the united states perhaps

984
01:08:52,140 --> 01:08:53,780
arizona or nevada

985
01:08:53,780 --> 01:08:58,620
where a flying saucer was reputed to a land landed and uh...

986
01:08:58,620 --> 01:09:02,980
this was covered up by the air force and the area was roped off

987
01:09:02,980 --> 01:09:04,260
uh...

988
01:09:04,260 --> 01:09:08,140
uh... i knew the reporter evidently uh... gave this story to major keyhole if

989
01:09:08,140 --> 01:09:09,300
i'm not mistaken

990
01:09:09,300 --> 01:09:14,100
and uh... he was able to bypass these roadblocks go over this hill and watch

991
01:09:14,100 --> 01:09:18,020
the uh... air force officials looking at this uh... saucer

992
01:09:18,020 --> 01:09:21,980
loading it into a van and perhaps taking it to a warehouse which is supposed to be

993
01:09:21,980 --> 01:09:24,020
near washington somewhere

994
01:09:24,020 --> 01:09:27,660
well sir i can clarify that that came out of a book called the uh... behind the

995
01:09:27,660 --> 01:09:30,260
behind the flying saucer by fidel a colleague yes

996
01:09:30,260 --> 01:09:32,780
and uh... nightcap never made any claim to this

997
01:09:32,780 --> 01:09:34,260
there has been uh...

998
01:09:34,260 --> 01:09:36,220
repeatedly on and off uh...

999
01:09:36,220 --> 01:09:40,100
uh... suggestions at the uh... right that is in project blue book does have a

1000
01:09:40,100 --> 01:09:43,500
saucer in color dot but there is no uh... outside proof of it

1001
01:09:43,500 --> 01:09:46,220
for his thank you for calling will take some more calls at seven eight one four

1002
01:09:46,220 --> 01:09:49,500
five one five i did mention two major items would like to uh...

1003
01:09:49,500 --> 01:09:52,540
get to and that is to reports of

1004
01:09:52,540 --> 01:09:55,100
very good uh... flying saucer sightings

1005
01:09:55,100 --> 01:09:59,060
can goodman just join us double key white c tb and answer and whether man

1006
01:09:59,060 --> 01:10:02,980
yet a sighting that occurred some years ago to tell us i guess about two and a

1007
01:10:02,980 --> 01:10:04,860
half years ago we'd like to have repeated

1008
01:10:04,860 --> 01:10:07,300
for so i'd like to end the rest of my guess here

1009
01:10:07,300 --> 01:10:09,620
to hear a conversation that i had earlier

1010
01:10:09,620 --> 01:10:10,420
this evening

1011
01:10:10,420 --> 01:10:12,340
with mister mckinney catar

1012
01:10:12,340 --> 01:10:16,140
and mister uh... catar is the author of anderson bill the future prize winning

1013
01:10:16,140 --> 01:10:20,380
book a few years ago is also the author co-author with general christmas may

1014
01:10:20,380 --> 01:10:21,420
of the story

1015
01:10:21,420 --> 01:10:23,060
of christmas may that appeared

1016
01:10:23,060 --> 01:10:24,700
now just a couple of months ago

1017
01:10:24,700 --> 01:10:28,020
i thought to intercept and ask him if you would uh... explain that to us a

1018
01:10:28,020 --> 01:10:28,820
little bit about

1019
01:10:28,820 --> 01:10:32,100
uh... some of the flying saucer events that have touched his life

1020
01:10:32,100 --> 01:10:35,020
uh... you know what i mean to know that the article

1021
01:10:35,020 --> 01:10:35,940
that uh...

1022
01:10:35,940 --> 01:10:39,660
used to be a doting commas now uh... you know what made you change is that since

1023
01:10:39,660 --> 01:10:41,620
you uh... had not

1024
01:10:41,620 --> 01:10:43,460
seem what that point

1025
01:10:43,460 --> 01:10:45,340
well i said i had

1026
01:10:45,340 --> 01:10:50,500
contested money to make a very interesting other

1027
01:10:50,500 --> 01:10:52,940
i didn't think that

1028
01:10:52,940 --> 01:10:56,140
that i was a doting commas at the time

1029
01:10:56,140 --> 01:11:00,820
but i had been a long time ago and then the evidence just seemed to mount up

1030
01:11:00,820 --> 01:11:01,500
there were

1031
01:11:01,500 --> 01:11:02,900
people

1032
01:11:02,900 --> 01:11:06,060
in a position to recognize

1033
01:11:06,060 --> 01:11:07,060
that uh...

1034
01:11:07,060 --> 01:11:10,260
these things they observe are out of the ordinary

1035
01:11:10,260 --> 01:11:12,380
i could not ignore their testimony

1036
01:11:12,380 --> 01:11:15,780
we've had these people were qualified to know at least what they saw

1037
01:11:15,780 --> 01:11:16,940
exactly

1038
01:11:16,940 --> 01:11:21,620
what about your incident? how did your sighting come about of the UFO?

1039
01:11:21,620 --> 01:11:24,860
well i've described that all in this article

1040
01:11:25,860 --> 01:11:28,420
i just went down on the beach

1041
01:11:28,420 --> 01:11:31,420
in the very early evening

1042
01:11:31,420 --> 01:11:32,740
and uh...

1043
01:11:32,740 --> 01:11:35,060
i just drove down there

1044
01:11:35,060 --> 01:11:36,340
take a little walk

1045
01:11:36,340 --> 01:11:40,700
my editor and his wife were here from New York

1046
01:11:40,700 --> 01:11:44,300
we'd all been out together somewhere and come back to the house and they were

1047
01:11:44,300 --> 01:11:45,500
eating cocktails

1048
01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:47,820
i just thought i'd take a little stroll down the beach

1049
01:11:47,820 --> 01:11:49,180
i went down

1050
01:11:49,180 --> 01:11:53,660
looked to the southwest and here was this thing hanging in the sky

1051
01:11:53,660 --> 01:11:56,660
what was the distance from you approximately?

1052
01:11:56,660 --> 01:11:59,980
i had the slightest idea because it didn't know the size

1053
01:11:59,980 --> 01:12:02,380
but i knew it was motionless because

1054
01:12:02,380 --> 01:12:07,140
it didn't run advancing toward me because it didn't get any larger

1055
01:12:07,140 --> 01:12:10,620
it wasn't receding at the time

1056
01:12:10,620 --> 01:12:14,500
because it didn't get any smaller and it moved neither to right nor left

1057
01:12:14,500 --> 01:12:16,060
it was absolutely motionless

1058
01:12:16,060 --> 01:12:17,580
just uh... sat there

1059
01:12:17,580 --> 01:12:23,580
it looked like a half or a third of a top half of a third of a tangerine

1060
01:12:23,580 --> 01:12:24,780
although uh...

1061
01:12:24,780 --> 01:12:31,780
there i had to see that there was a slight risk across the bottom

1062
01:12:31,780 --> 01:12:34,780
i could just barely make that

1063
01:12:34,780 --> 01:12:37,780
did it have any uh... legs or these protrusions?

1064
01:12:37,780 --> 01:12:39,380
no it's too far away to

1065
01:12:39,380 --> 01:12:42,380
discover anything like that it was high in the air

1066
01:12:42,380 --> 01:12:47,660
how i don't know i guess there was a thing down to its relationship with the trees

1067
01:12:47,660 --> 01:12:50,340
on a point of land where it was

1068
01:12:50,340 --> 01:12:51,940
and then uh...

1069
01:12:51,940 --> 01:12:54,340
the next morning i used the instruments to

1070
01:12:54,340 --> 01:12:55,180
determine

1071
01:12:55,180 --> 01:12:57,340
the height of which it appeared

1072
01:12:57,340 --> 01:13:00,460
it was 11 degrees above the horizon

1073
01:13:00,460 --> 01:13:06,460
as for the compass reading the bearing would have been anywhere from 187 to 192

1074
01:13:06,460 --> 01:13:08,460
did anyone else see this with you?

1075
01:13:08,460 --> 01:13:10,580
there was an old doctor

1076
01:13:10,580 --> 01:13:13,580
who came out to face the next door

1077
01:13:13,580 --> 01:13:15,860
and he had rented a house there

1078
01:13:15,860 --> 01:13:18,620
and i ran down to

1079
01:13:18,620 --> 01:13:19,660
the old man

1080
01:13:19,660 --> 01:13:22,900
i pointed wildly and said look back to a look

1081
01:13:22,900 --> 01:13:25,860
and uh...

1082
01:13:25,860 --> 01:13:28,860
he looked wildly around the sky and

1083
01:13:28,860 --> 01:13:30,620
uh...

1084
01:13:30,620 --> 01:13:31,820
then he saw it

1085
01:13:31,820 --> 01:13:35,140
and i said what's that?

1086
01:13:35,140 --> 01:13:38,780
he tried to adjust his old eyes to this thing he said why uh...

1087
01:13:38,780 --> 01:13:40,020
isn't that

1088
01:13:40,020 --> 01:13:44,020
too airplane-free feeling in the mid air?

1089
01:13:44,020 --> 01:13:46,060
because apparently

1090
01:13:46,060 --> 01:13:49,020
he judged this as uh...

1091
01:13:49,180 --> 01:13:54,380
dark on the surface of this orange metallic object

1092
01:13:54,380 --> 01:13:58,660
the way you get any round surface you know and reflect sun on it

1093
01:13:58,660 --> 01:14:00,180
uh... the uh...

1094
01:14:00,180 --> 01:14:04,180
part that's brightest and shiny will be in the middle

1095
01:14:04,180 --> 01:14:07,780
matter of fact if you've got a beautiful woman's knee

1096
01:14:07,780 --> 01:14:09,040
with her

1097
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:12,580
poli-glot looks that way you'll notice when you draw it or

1098
01:14:12,580 --> 01:14:13,540
observe it

1099
01:14:13,540 --> 01:14:14,780
that the

1100
01:14:14,780 --> 01:14:17,820
the round part of the object

1101
01:14:17,820 --> 01:14:18,820
here is you

1102
01:14:18,820 --> 01:14:20,540
on the curved surface

1103
01:14:20,540 --> 01:14:22,340
is shiny and brightest

1104
01:14:22,340 --> 01:14:25,340
you'll notice that too

1105
01:14:25,340 --> 01:14:28,980
too old to be where it's at

1106
01:14:28,980 --> 01:14:31,260
anyway

1107
01:14:31,260 --> 01:14:36,140
i said he had two airplanes refuting in the middle and they headed in opposite directions

1108
01:14:36,140 --> 01:14:38,700
he said yeah i guess they are

1109
01:14:38,700 --> 01:14:42,340
and then that moment he started to move

1110
01:14:42,340 --> 01:14:43,100
was uh...

1111
01:14:43,100 --> 01:14:47,260
unbelievable speed i've never seen any object where it was fast

1112
01:14:47,420 --> 01:14:50,420
from a typically still position to uh...

1113
01:14:50,420 --> 01:14:51,420
it just took off

1114
01:14:51,420 --> 01:14:53,860
uh... drawing into

1115
01:14:53,860 --> 01:14:56,860
pie into the southwest

1116
01:14:56,860 --> 01:14:59,500
and

1117
01:14:59,500 --> 01:15:01,500
another

1118
01:15:01,500 --> 01:15:03,940
neighbor appeared on the beach

1119
01:15:03,940 --> 01:15:07,140
my friend Dorothy Smith right beyond

1120
01:15:07,140 --> 01:15:12,340
and i screamed Dorothy Dorothy and started to order and before i could tell her that

1121
01:15:12,340 --> 01:15:14,340
hundred yards ago

1122
01:15:14,340 --> 01:15:16,820
uh... it was entirely gone

1123
01:15:17,140 --> 01:15:18,540
in your mind uh...

1124
01:15:18,540 --> 01:15:22,540
while you were seeing this and and and i have to try to discredit you know your

1125
01:15:22,540 --> 01:15:24,540
own credibility

1126
01:15:24,540 --> 01:15:27,540
i had believed that it is this

1127
01:15:27,540 --> 01:15:29,100
i thought what i'd like to

1128
01:15:29,100 --> 01:15:30,420
i know

1129
01:15:30,420 --> 01:15:34,220
for sure i just don't have to take anybody else's workforce

1130
01:15:34,220 --> 01:15:38,060
i had of course been loudly thought my house to try to uh...

1131
01:15:38,060 --> 01:15:42,020
get my wife and uh... my editor his wife

1132
01:15:42,020 --> 01:15:49,020
uh... the editor of the late time

1133
01:15:49,020 --> 01:15:51,020
i had to hide it

1134
01:15:51,020 --> 01:15:56,020
and i'm making cocktails and laughing and talking and i couldn't hear me at all

1135
01:15:56,020 --> 01:15:57,300
now uh...

1136
01:15:57,300 --> 01:16:00,020
you've seen your article in the popular science that you took this uh...

1137
01:16:00,020 --> 01:16:03,020
information to an air force colonel at mcdill seal it by time

1138
01:16:03,020 --> 01:16:04,580
i was a friend of mine

1139
01:16:04,580 --> 01:16:05,700
it was his reaction

1140
01:16:05,700 --> 01:16:07,980
and of course he believed it

1141
01:16:07,980 --> 01:16:08,580
he did

1142
01:16:08,580 --> 01:16:11,380
yeah that's my good cry

1143
01:16:11,540 --> 01:16:15,140
you see the rancid file in the air force

1144
01:16:15,140 --> 01:16:16,100
uh...

1145
01:16:16,100 --> 01:16:16,820
i know

1146
01:16:16,820 --> 01:16:23,500
a lot of people flyers who believe it may exist in the ufo

1147
01:16:23,500 --> 01:16:26,020
there's a policy

1148
01:16:26,020 --> 01:16:27,260
that would seem to

1149
01:16:27,260 --> 01:16:29,780
indicate

1150
01:16:29,780 --> 01:16:34,780
a high command

1151
01:16:34,780 --> 01:16:38,260
put down a structure

1152
01:16:38,420 --> 01:16:40,100
information

1153
01:16:40,100 --> 01:16:42,100
evaluation

1154
01:16:42,100 --> 01:16:44,100
general to me

1155
01:16:44,100 --> 01:16:45,260
denied that

1156
01:16:45,260 --> 01:16:47,340
to me and denied an impasse

1157
01:16:47,340 --> 01:16:48,900
that there's ever been

1158
01:16:48,900 --> 01:16:49,940
any policy

1159
01:16:49,940 --> 01:16:50,940
down

1160
01:16:50,940 --> 01:16:52,940
by the chief of staff or

1161
01:16:52,940 --> 01:16:55,940
any board or anyone at the pedicab

1162
01:16:55,940 --> 01:16:59,340
what about this uh... thing that uh... so many of the

1163
01:16:59,340 --> 01:17:06,100
diehard uh... ufologists talk about this uh... order two or two point two or something like that that uh...

1164
01:17:06,100 --> 01:17:07,620
makes it a little

1165
01:17:08,500 --> 01:17:12,660
against the regulations for them to speak to anyone concerning flying saucers

1166
01:17:12,660 --> 01:17:13,660
anyone in the ufo

1167
01:17:13,660 --> 01:17:18,420
well naturally you're going to get involved in something that may be classified

1168
01:17:18,420 --> 01:17:20,340
that's a very good order

1169
01:17:20,340 --> 01:17:22,060
because uh...

1170
01:17:22,060 --> 01:17:26,660
there are classified things that have been made public there are planes that

1171
01:17:26,660 --> 01:17:29,260
from time to time that are under wraps

1172
01:17:29,260 --> 01:17:31,060
and uh...

1173
01:17:31,060 --> 01:17:35,980
you just can't have an easy conversation on this subject

1174
01:17:35,980 --> 01:17:39,740
there was a time when I was with myself a top secret

1175
01:17:39,740 --> 01:17:40,740
and uh...

1176
01:17:40,740 --> 01:17:44,020
uh... was working as a technical shop for the air

1177
01:17:44,020 --> 01:17:45,580
chief of staff

1178
01:17:45,580 --> 01:17:47,220
that was back in the uh...

1179
01:17:47,220 --> 01:17:49,580
ran a big day

1180
01:17:49,580 --> 01:17:53,060
but i wouldn't discuss uf always with anyone

1181
01:17:53,060 --> 01:17:54,180
because i didn't

1182
01:17:54,180 --> 01:17:55,100
be guilty of

1183
01:17:55,100 --> 01:17:57,980
human unrelentingly divulging some

1184
01:17:57,980 --> 01:17:59,420
classified material

1185
01:17:59,420 --> 01:18:00,620
that's what i was surprised you

1186
01:18:00,620 --> 01:18:04,420
uh... you mentioned uh... colonel McCoy and you mentioned uh... general to me

1187
01:18:04,420 --> 01:18:06,420
the client

1188
01:18:06,420 --> 01:18:08,460
the client for space

1189
01:18:08,460 --> 01:18:11,420
uh... formerly

1190
01:18:11,420 --> 01:18:15,860
for several years ago he was killed up there

1191
01:18:15,860 --> 01:18:19,140
but according to what organizations like nikep say

1192
01:18:19,140 --> 01:18:23,460
uh... these officers cannot speak and yet they did speak to you

1193
01:18:23,460 --> 01:18:24,860
uh...

1194
01:18:24,860 --> 01:18:28,780
i think i see the reason why though on on second thought now uh... we have not

1195
01:18:28,780 --> 01:18:31,780
related yet that uh... this uh... setting of yours

1196
01:18:31,780 --> 01:18:35,220
was back in nineteen fifty four and this order probably has come down since

1197
01:18:35,220 --> 01:18:38,780
that time

1198
01:18:38,780 --> 01:18:41,780
that order may have been promulgated

1199
01:18:41,780 --> 01:18:43,140
later state

1200
01:18:43,140 --> 01:18:45,220
but at that time

1201
01:18:45,220 --> 01:18:46,740
you were getting a pretty rough

1202
01:18:46,740 --> 01:18:49,180
from these people to project blue book

1203
01:18:49,180 --> 01:18:53,060
the project blue book was the uh... official air force investigation into

1204
01:18:53,060 --> 01:18:54,620
other type of objects wasn't it?

1205
01:18:54,620 --> 01:18:57,060
yeah, these people up at the right path

1206
01:18:57,060 --> 01:18:57,700
now

1207
01:18:57,700 --> 01:18:58,220
um...

1208
01:18:58,220 --> 01:19:02,980
i told him that i said to mike, well here's what i saw this day and he says

1209
01:19:02,980 --> 01:19:04,860
what do you want to make out a report

1210
01:19:04,860 --> 01:19:08,140
and i said hell no, i don't want some character coming around and telling me i saw the planet

1211
01:19:08,140 --> 01:19:10,060
venus or something you know

1212
01:19:10,060 --> 01:19:12,980
and i knew that well i hadn't seen the planet venus

1213
01:19:12,980 --> 01:19:16,460
i mean i've seen it but i knew that it was this

1214
01:19:16,460 --> 01:19:19,340
what did your wife think about the sighting when you told her?

1215
01:19:19,340 --> 01:19:21,300
what did your wife think about the sighting when you told her?

1216
01:19:21,300 --> 01:19:24,780
it's been extremely jealous all these years since because she hasn't seen it

1217
01:19:24,820 --> 01:19:27,220
but at the beginning did she kind of uh... what kind of a...

1218
01:19:27,220 --> 01:19:30,700
well at the end of the week we both we've discussed it many times

1219
01:19:30,700 --> 01:19:33,460
uh... after i

1220
01:19:33,460 --> 01:19:34,700
uh...

1221
01:19:34,700 --> 01:19:40,940
dropped a part of the way from the job so that i wouldn't be unwittingly divulging anything classified to her

1222
01:19:40,940 --> 01:19:42,700
and we discussed uh...

1223
01:19:42,700 --> 01:19:46,100
for a long while i wouldn't talk about solace at all, i like it

1224
01:19:46,100 --> 01:19:47,780
uh... talk about what

1225
01:19:47,780 --> 01:19:49,180
was this thing that i saw?

1226
01:19:49,180 --> 01:19:52,900
you know, i wouldn't get into any general discussion

1227
01:19:52,980 --> 01:19:55,900
as i say, i was working for the airteam at the time

1228
01:19:55,900 --> 01:19:59,220
and i didn't want to break into security

1229
01:19:59,220 --> 01:20:02,100
as Mr. McKenna Lee Catter, the author of Andersonville

1230
01:20:02,100 --> 01:20:07,380
the Pulitzer Prize winning book and the conversation we had earlier today about his experience in sighting a flying saucer

1231
01:20:07,380 --> 01:20:09,180
we will talk about several other

1232
01:20:09,180 --> 01:20:14,420
uh... aspects of unidentified flying objects, a way of chance to play for you

1233
01:20:14,420 --> 01:20:17,020
at a later broadcast on flying saucers

1234
01:20:17,020 --> 01:20:22,300
right now let's get to some of those calls, wedding on the contact line, because we still have that fascinating story that i've heard before

1235
01:20:22,300 --> 01:20:24,180
a couple of years ago, i'd like for you to hear it

1236
01:20:24,180 --> 01:20:25,340
from Ken McBittman

1237
01:20:25,340 --> 01:20:31,100
but to those of you who have been waiting, let's have your calls right now, a quick reminder this is WKYC Cleveland, Ohio, NBC

1238
01:20:31,100 --> 01:20:33,180
and Cleveland, this is Harb Morgan, you're in contact

1239
01:20:33,180 --> 01:20:38,900
please tell me, have you ever heard of the Bermuda triangle?

1240
01:20:38,900 --> 01:20:39,420
yes

1241
01:20:39,420 --> 01:20:41,020
i was reading a book

1242
01:20:41,020 --> 01:20:44,660
i think it's called Invisible Horizons by Vincent Gattis

1243
01:20:44,660 --> 01:20:47,940
and it says in the book it says draw a line from Florida to Bermuda

1244
01:20:47,940 --> 01:20:51,500
and then it says in there from Bermuda to Puerto Rico

1245
01:20:51,540 --> 01:20:53,380
and i'll throw it back to Florida

1246
01:20:53,380 --> 01:20:56,580
and it has many discurrences of airplanes

1247
01:20:56,580 --> 01:20:59,620
and it has one on December 5th 1945

1248
01:20:59,620 --> 01:21:02,380
at 2pm, 2pm, 1pm

1249
01:21:02,380 --> 01:21:08,300
this is 5pm, TBM, Avenger torpedo bombers took off

1250
01:21:08,300 --> 01:21:10,060
and uh...

1251
01:21:10,060 --> 01:21:16,060
then the first word came from them at 3.45pm and they thought that they were going to have instructions to land

1252
01:21:16,060 --> 01:21:19,660
but the towers, but the people in the plane

1253
01:21:19,740 --> 01:21:23,100
they said, this is an emergency

1254
01:21:23,100 --> 01:21:25,780
and they said, we seem to be off course, we cannot see land

1255
01:21:25,780 --> 01:21:27,380
we cannot see land

1256
01:21:27,380 --> 01:21:30,460
and the guy in the tower says, what is your position?

1257
01:21:30,460 --> 01:21:34,820
the radio is powered back, we are not sure about the position, we cannot see

1258
01:21:34,820 --> 01:21:37,180
just where we are, we seem to be lost

1259
01:21:37,180 --> 01:21:40,100
then they asked, assume, then the people in the tower

1260
01:21:40,100 --> 01:21:44,220
total applied to assume, bring, do, west, the tower, instruct it

1261
01:21:44,220 --> 01:21:48,580
and then, but the guy in the plane he says, we don't know which way is west

1262
01:21:48,700 --> 01:21:52,620
he says, everything is wrong, strange, we cannot be sure of any direction

1263
01:21:52,620 --> 01:21:54,820
even the ocean doesn't look at all

1264
01:21:54,820 --> 01:21:55,940
and when did this happen?

1265
01:21:55,940 --> 01:21:58,340
December 5th 1945

1266
01:21:58,340 --> 01:21:59,580
it was at...

1267
01:21:59,580 --> 01:22:05,420
see, this was at the Naval Air Station in Fort Lauderdale, Florida

1268
01:22:05,420 --> 01:22:08,620
alright, so it was the essence of your question then, do the panelist here believe it?

1269
01:22:08,620 --> 01:22:09,420
yes

1270
01:22:09,420 --> 01:22:11,420
alright, let's check it out, George Fussett

1271
01:22:11,420 --> 01:22:15,500
well, the only thing I can say hard is that it's a well known fact that they

1272
01:22:15,620 --> 01:22:21,220
like the silent alien article, they disturb the magnetic field, which is from 30,000 feet up

1273
01:22:21,220 --> 01:22:24,420
they can disturb radio and TV

1274
01:22:24,420 --> 01:22:28,300
they have been known to have affected magnetic direction finders

1275
01:22:28,300 --> 01:22:31,300
and air direction finders also compasses

1276
01:22:31,300 --> 01:22:33,300
what about this Bermuda Triangle?

1277
01:22:33,300 --> 01:22:36,300
no, no, I read the article, the book just the other day

1278
01:22:36,300 --> 01:22:41,300
and I think he's done a tremendous job of documenting many of the plane that disappearances

1279
01:22:42,100 --> 01:22:47,100
and ships also in the Bermuda Triangle due to some kind of, I won't say, creek of nature

1280
01:22:47,100 --> 01:22:51,100
but due to some of the same characteristics that are observed when UFOs are near too

1281
01:22:51,100 --> 01:22:56,100
and do you connect the UFOs to these incidents, Alan?

1282
01:22:56,100 --> 01:23:01,100
well, I would have to because it was seen in the area at one time, I think it was in 47 or 48

1283
01:23:01,100 --> 01:23:03,100
where there was one in the area

1284
01:23:03,100 --> 01:23:07,100
and assistant, I guess there have been many planes, but not 17 at all, isn't it, Earl?

1285
01:23:07,100 --> 01:23:09,100
17 as far as I know

1286
01:23:09,900 --> 01:23:11,900
this is our Morgan contact

1287
01:23:11,900 --> 01:23:13,900
go ahead, please

1288
01:23:13,900 --> 01:23:18,900
how do you determine when these UFOs came from Venus

1289
01:23:18,900 --> 01:23:21,900
and what planets they came from?

1290
01:23:21,900 --> 01:23:24,900
this is, I guess, a question, really, a person's opinion

1291
01:23:24,900 --> 01:23:27,900
let's do a quick opinion poll right around here, Rick

1292
01:23:27,900 --> 01:23:30,900
it's just hard to say, they could be from another solar system

1293
01:23:30,900 --> 01:23:32,900
they could be from Mars, they could be from anywhere

1294
01:23:32,900 --> 01:23:34,900
Alan?

1295
01:23:34,900 --> 01:23:38,900
we're not making any claims where they're from, but they're definitely, we believe, extraterrestrial

1296
01:23:39,700 --> 01:23:43,700
when we go into space, we're going to the moon first, then to Mars, then to Venus, we hope

1297
01:23:43,700 --> 01:23:48,700
and so naturally, if something's coming into our area here

1298
01:23:48,700 --> 01:23:52,700
they're probably going to use those as stopping off spaces before they come here

1299
01:23:52,700 --> 01:23:55,700
so therefore they may be from beyond our solar system

1300
01:23:55,700 --> 01:23:58,700
merely using Mars or Venus or the moon before they get here

1301
01:23:58,700 --> 01:24:00,700
what do you think?

1302
01:24:00,700 --> 01:24:03,700
the different descriptions of the human beings that have been seen near the Arctic

1303
01:24:03,700 --> 01:24:06,700
in the Arctic and outside the Arctic home to ground

1304
01:24:06,700 --> 01:24:09,700
I'm not going to indicate that perhaps they come from many various races

1305
01:24:09,700 --> 01:24:13,700
beyond the home planet, but let's remember, even on our home planet here

1306
01:24:13,700 --> 01:24:17,700
we have Mitzitz and Duolks and Tigmis and some people who seem to be giants

1307
01:24:17,700 --> 01:24:19,700
compared to Mickey Ruth

1308
01:24:19,700 --> 01:24:24,700
yeah, but I just want to extend to reason that they would be sending those that depart so far from the norm

1309
01:24:24,700 --> 01:24:29,700
rather than life as it really is in a normal state

1310
01:24:29,700 --> 01:24:33,700
well, they seem to be humanoid and appearance and they do have eyes

1311
01:24:33,700 --> 01:24:37,700
they do have arms and legs and the focus bodies so to speak and heads

1312
01:24:37,700 --> 01:24:41,700
and they have certainly curious and they certainly are courageous

1313
01:24:41,700 --> 01:24:45,700
they certainly brave and certainly have a lot of intelligence behind it

1314
01:24:45,700 --> 01:24:47,700
let's have a next caller, it's 7814515

1315
01:24:47,700 --> 01:24:49,700
quickly this is Howard Morgan, contact

1316
01:24:49,700 --> 01:24:55,700
hello, I was a few years ago I came into contact with a book about flying saucers

1317
01:24:55,700 --> 01:25:02,700
and in this book there was a bunch of claims by people who had said they had seen saucers

1318
01:25:02,700 --> 01:25:06,700
and seen the people and gone in on for rides and these ships

1319
01:25:06,700 --> 01:25:12,700
and I was wondering if your organization has validated or investigated any of these reports

1320
01:25:12,700 --> 01:25:14,700
was that book by George Adamski?

1321
01:25:14,700 --> 01:25:16,700
I have no idea, it was quite a while ago

1322
01:25:16,700 --> 01:25:22,700
no contactee to the best of our knowledge has ever been able to prove his point

1323
01:25:22,700 --> 01:25:29,700
and this has been what we have believed here in the CUP, the Nephology Project

1324
01:25:29,700 --> 01:25:31,700
and Icap believes that, APRO believes it

1325
01:25:31,700 --> 01:25:37,700
I don't mean to disprove the fact that men like Lonnie Zamora, Socorro, New Mexico

1326
01:25:37,700 --> 01:25:41,700
the patrolmen didn't see creatures, yes creatures have been seen many times

1327
01:25:41,700 --> 01:25:44,700
but that doesn't mean that they talk in high German

1328
01:25:44,700 --> 01:25:46,700
all right, we'll have more calls coming up very shortly

1329
01:25:46,700 --> 01:25:49,700
it's 7814515, let me take just a short break

1330
01:25:49,700 --> 01:25:52,700
while you're reserving your place on the line

1331
01:25:52,700 --> 01:25:56,700
to bring in a good friend of mine, a fellow who last visited here on contact

1332
01:25:56,700 --> 01:25:59,700
I guess about two and a half years ago and at that time

1333
01:25:59,700 --> 01:26:03,700
I don't know, I'm still a skeptic girl after all these years

1334
01:26:03,700 --> 01:26:08,700
I've never seen one of these things, you call it what you will, a flying saucer

1335
01:26:08,700 --> 01:26:12,700
an unidentified flying object, but to me personally

1336
01:26:12,700 --> 01:26:18,700
when I've heard with these ears from people that I know of or see with my own eyes

1337
01:26:18,700 --> 01:26:22,700
I think the two most convincing experiences, let me put it in that category

1338
01:26:22,700 --> 01:26:26,700
the first one was from the experiences that I've heard was from Reverend Kenneth Hoffman

1339
01:26:26,700 --> 01:26:32,700
the Lutheran minister here in town and from another Kenneth, Ken Goodman

1340
01:26:32,700 --> 01:26:34,700
Ken, I'm glad you could take time to come up here and join us

1341
01:26:34,700 --> 01:26:37,700
and I wish that for the sake of the listeners that perhaps didn't hear it a couple of years ago

1342
01:26:37,700 --> 01:26:41,700
could you just briefly relate to me what happened to you and when and where

1343
01:26:41,700 --> 01:26:45,700
as I said two and a half years ago when I was on the show

1344
01:26:45,700 --> 01:26:48,700
I never really mentioned this to many people because it's the same old thing

1345
01:26:48,700 --> 01:26:51,700
well, what was he trying to do, he put somebody on so I kept it very quiet

1346
01:26:51,700 --> 01:26:54,700
my wife didn't even know about it for some time until one night I mentioned a lot that we discussed it

1347
01:26:54,700 --> 01:26:56,700
so you are a secretish

1348
01:26:56,700 --> 01:27:00,700
and I'm also very skeptical and I can see why people don't really believe these things exist

1349
01:27:00,700 --> 01:27:05,700
and if you recall that night that I was here, another gentleman was relating his story of a sighting

1350
01:27:05,700 --> 01:27:10,700
and I made the comment to him right on the air, I said, you know, I'm sitting here and I told you my sighting

1351
01:27:10,700 --> 01:27:14,700
and yet when you sit there and tell me your sighting, I tend not to want to believe you

1352
01:27:14,700 --> 01:27:16,700
that's kind of the same

1353
01:27:16,700 --> 01:27:23,700
well, it happened back in 1952 about February when I was in the Army taking basic training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina

1354
01:27:23,700 --> 01:27:30,700
I never did much as far as any readings about UFOs and at that time they were beginning to sight quite a few of them

1355
01:27:30,700 --> 01:27:36,700
this particular sighting occurred, I would imagine about 4.30 in the morning it was still very dark

1356
01:27:36,700 --> 01:27:42,700
the entire regiment, our training regiment was getting ready to board trucks to go out to the firing range

1357
01:27:42,700 --> 01:27:44,700
4.30 in the morning?

1358
01:27:44,700 --> 01:27:46,700
yeah, we get up early down there

1359
01:27:46,700 --> 01:27:52,700
and we were all lined up on this road more or less at a rest position waiting for the trucks to arrive

1360
01:27:52,700 --> 01:27:58,700
and it was a very clear night, not too many stars out and we were just sitting around showing the fat mostly

1361
01:27:58,700 --> 01:28:02,700
and a couple of sat in the nose up in the sky there was this bright light

1362
01:28:02,700 --> 01:28:05,700
well at first it was so far off it appeared to be just a star

1363
01:28:05,700 --> 01:28:09,700
then it began to move just a bit and we figured, well, it's another airliner

1364
01:28:09,700 --> 01:28:12,700
nothing much to do but look at the stars and sky anyhow

1365
01:28:12,700 --> 01:28:18,700
well the strange thing about this one was that all of a sudden still a very small object in the sky stopped suddenly

1366
01:28:18,700 --> 01:28:25,700
and this again attracted our attention to keep focused on it as I say a regiment of men were there

1367
01:28:25,700 --> 01:28:32,700
and we have later checked out a couple of these fellows who said that they will verify the fact that this was the sighting that we had seen that night

1368
01:28:32,700 --> 01:28:35,700
this we did about a year and a half ago with one of the UFO members here

1369
01:28:35,700 --> 01:28:42,700
at any rate the object would then again move, it would be very erratic, it would go up, it would go down to the left, to the right

1370
01:28:42,700 --> 01:28:46,700
and as it did these particular maneuvers it kept getting closer and closer

1371
01:28:46,700 --> 01:28:52,700
and we started sort of guessing what it might be, maybe it's a new helicopter or something of that nature

1372
01:28:52,700 --> 01:28:56,700
but the erratic movement of it was so fast that it couldn't have been a helicopter

1373
01:28:56,700 --> 01:29:01,700
and it kept up with this intense bright light that they always say the flying saucers have

1374
01:29:01,700 --> 01:29:07,700
and it got much closer to us and it finally got to the point as I say continuing with these erratic maneuvers

1375
01:29:07,700 --> 01:29:12,700
were just holding still for several seconds but it was out there the total time I guess maybe ten minutes

1376
01:29:12,700 --> 01:29:15,700
it was hard to judge, you stand there with these chills running up and down your spine

1377
01:29:15,700 --> 01:29:18,700
and you begin to realize this has got to be a flying saucer

1378
01:29:18,700 --> 01:29:25,700
and it pulled out, I would say from where we are in the studio here at 6 in Rockwell to the terminal tower building

1379
01:29:25,700 --> 01:29:27,700
which was probably several thousand feet up

1380
01:29:27,700 --> 01:29:28,700
they got that close to you?

1381
01:29:28,700 --> 01:29:33,700
Yeah, it was rather close to the point where you could actually see portholes in it

1382
01:29:33,700 --> 01:29:37,700
and this was really the clincher that you had to believe this was a flying saucer

1383
01:29:37,700 --> 01:29:41,700
it was the oval shaped type thing, the saucer shape

1384
01:29:41,700 --> 01:29:44,700
and the four or five portholes were very discernible

1385
01:29:44,700 --> 01:29:49,700
there was the light brighter inside the portholes than the actual glow of the saucer itself

1386
01:29:49,700 --> 01:29:53,700
they were very very bright lights in it so the portholes did stand out well

1387
01:29:53,700 --> 01:29:56,700
and then it did a rather strange thing

1388
01:29:56,700 --> 01:30:00,700
and if you recall perhaps after the program or while the program was still in progress

1389
01:30:00,700 --> 01:30:06,700
the last time I was here I hadn't known about the fact that other people made this similar type of sighting

1390
01:30:06,700 --> 01:30:11,700
a bright search light sent a beam down from the bottom of the ship

1391
01:30:11,700 --> 01:30:14,700
and it would blink on and off

1392
01:30:14,700 --> 01:30:17,700
and it was a real weird thing to sit there and just watch this thing

1393
01:30:17,700 --> 01:30:22,700
and then all of a sudden for no reason at all other than the fact that I guess it wanted to go

1394
01:30:22,700 --> 01:30:28,700
it turned into a red glow and all we could figure after it left was the fact that it had turned directly opposite from us

1395
01:30:28,700 --> 01:30:34,700
and we saw the evidently jet type exhaust because it turned into this reddish orange ball

1396
01:30:34,700 --> 01:30:38,700
and within just a split second just like that it was gone

1397
01:30:38,700 --> 01:30:43,700
and right out of sight it moved at such fantastic speed we just discounted any facts that it could have been something from this planet

1398
01:30:43,700 --> 01:30:49,700
because at that time and even since then I've yet to hear of any plane or any type object that we have

1399
01:30:49,700 --> 01:30:54,700
and that was back in 52 up to this present date that could possibly go that fast or sit still in air

1400
01:30:54,700 --> 01:30:57,700
and move as erratic as that one did

1401
01:30:57,700 --> 01:31:00,700
so our only assumption was that it had to be a flying saucer

1402
01:31:00,700 --> 01:31:03,700
You were outside the barracks or you were already out at the campsite

1403
01:31:03,700 --> 01:31:06,700
We were outside behind the barracks on a roadway

1404
01:31:06,700 --> 01:31:08,700
it's an area known as Tank Hill in Fort Jackson

1405
01:31:08,700 --> 01:31:10,700
We know it very well

1406
01:31:10,700 --> 01:31:12,700
I was stationed there myself

1407
01:31:12,700 --> 01:31:14,700
It's the highest elevation in the area

1408
01:31:14,700 --> 01:31:18,700
and from there you get a good view of almost the entire countryside all the way over to Columbia

1409
01:31:18,700 --> 01:31:22,700
and it seemed to be centered more between Jackson and Columbia

1410
01:31:22,700 --> 01:31:24,700
Fort Jackson and Columbia, South Carolina

1411
01:31:24,700 --> 01:31:27,700
but it was close enough that we could actually see these portholes we saw in the morning

1412
01:31:27,700 --> 01:31:28,700
People that were dark?

1413
01:31:28,700 --> 01:31:29,700
Oh yeah

1414
01:31:29,700 --> 01:31:30,700
Portholes were lit up inside

1415
01:31:30,700 --> 01:31:32,700
The inside of the ship was lit

1416
01:31:32,700 --> 01:31:36,700
and the light beaming through the portholes was brighter than the actual glow of the saucer itself

1417
01:31:36,700 --> 01:31:40,700
and I guess the reason it went is we started to get a daybreak about that time

1418
01:31:40,700 --> 01:31:43,700
and while it was just beginning to get a little light in the sky

1419
01:31:43,700 --> 01:31:44,700
he just took off

1420
01:31:44,700 --> 01:31:46,700
How many people are actually...

1421
01:31:46,700 --> 01:31:47,700
1,500, didn't you?

1422
01:31:47,700 --> 01:31:48,700
Yeah, 1,500

1423
01:31:48,700 --> 01:31:52,700
It was a training regiment which would probably be anywhere from 1,000 to 1,500 men out there

1424
01:31:52,700 --> 01:31:53,700
That's good enough confirmation

1425
01:31:53,700 --> 01:32:00,700
This is why Professor Charles Manning, the astrophysicist said it's one of the finest cases can he's ever heard of

1426
01:32:00,700 --> 01:32:03,700
What about the immediate group of men though right around you

1427
01:32:03,700 --> 01:32:06,700
Now you were standing in the cluster of how many men gabbing and...

1428
01:32:06,700 --> 01:32:09,700
Oh I guess there were about four or five of us in this one particular group

1429
01:32:09,700 --> 01:32:11,700
I was a platoon leader, platoon sergeant at the time

1430
01:32:11,700 --> 01:32:13,700
and I had my squad leaders with me

1431
01:32:13,700 --> 01:32:16,700
and we were just... of course everybody was looking at it, sort of dumbfounded

1432
01:32:16,700 --> 01:32:18,700
What kind of conversation was going on between you?

1433
01:32:18,700 --> 01:32:20,700
Just like the thing, what is it?

1434
01:32:20,700 --> 01:32:21,700
What can it be?

1435
01:32:21,700 --> 01:32:22,700
Has it got to be a flying saucer?

1436
01:32:22,700 --> 01:32:24,700
Because at that time there were a lot of sightings

1437
01:32:24,700 --> 01:32:25,700
but we were sort of out of it

1438
01:32:25,700 --> 01:32:28,700
but when you're in basic training you don't read newspapers and things like that

1439
01:32:28,700 --> 01:32:29,700
You didn't know what was happening to me

1440
01:32:29,700 --> 01:32:31,700
We were already coming, we were like, yeah

1441
01:32:31,700 --> 01:32:35,700
but that was a general talk like it's just unbelievable

1442
01:32:35,700 --> 01:32:37,700
that we here could see a flying saucer

1443
01:32:37,700 --> 01:32:40,700
You may hear of other people seeing it and never think you'll ever see one

1444
01:32:40,700 --> 01:32:41,700
and then when the time comes

1445
01:32:41,700 --> 01:32:44,700
like I say, all you do is get these chills going up and down your back

1446
01:32:44,700 --> 01:32:46,700
and when I hear these other stories about people

1447
01:32:46,700 --> 01:32:49,700
this fellow that you just now had

1448
01:32:49,700 --> 01:32:51,700
When he was talking about sighting it

1449
01:32:51,700 --> 01:32:54,700
I could feel the chills going up and down my back again

1450
01:32:54,700 --> 01:32:55,700
because I know what he went through

1451
01:32:55,700 --> 01:32:56,700
because if you ever see one

1452
01:32:56,700 --> 01:32:58,700
you get the weirdest feeling you ever had

1453
01:32:58,700 --> 01:33:01,700
because you know this thing's got to be from way out there

1454
01:33:01,700 --> 01:33:02,700
and you just don't...

1455
01:33:02,700 --> 01:33:06,700
it's always impossible to comprehend that there can be life outside of our own system

1456
01:33:06,700 --> 01:33:08,700
that could come here and if they wanted to

1457
01:33:08,700 --> 01:33:09,700
easily destroy us

1458
01:33:09,700 --> 01:33:11,700
because they have a machine that can get here like that

1459
01:33:11,700 --> 01:33:14,700
they sure must have the weapons to do whatever they want to do

1460
01:33:14,700 --> 01:33:17,700
but evidently it must be very peaceful and just checking us out

1461
01:33:17,700 --> 01:33:19,700
and that's about the way it looks

1462
01:33:19,700 --> 01:33:20,700
What was the follow up now?

1463
01:33:20,700 --> 01:33:21,700
Of course you're getting the truck

1464
01:33:21,700 --> 01:33:23,700
because this thing doesn't just vanish from your mind

1465
01:33:23,700 --> 01:33:25,700
you throw it in your mind and the rest of that day

1466
01:33:25,700 --> 01:33:26,700
and days to follow

1467
01:33:26,700 --> 01:33:29,700
What sort of conclusions did the guys come to?

1468
01:33:29,700 --> 01:33:33,700
There really wasn't much of a conclusion with the situation

1469
01:33:33,700 --> 01:33:35,700
The guys just sort of talked about it a little bit

1470
01:33:35,700 --> 01:33:37,700
but you get wrapped up in your basic training

1471
01:33:37,700 --> 01:33:39,700
you know you get up at 4 o'clock in the morning

1472
01:33:39,700 --> 01:33:42,700
you don't go to bed till midnight or 1 or 2

1473
01:33:42,700 --> 01:33:44,700
and it sort of goes out of the picture pretty quick

1474
01:33:44,700 --> 01:33:47,700
whether the officers involved around the area

1475
01:33:47,700 --> 01:33:49,700
made any report of it or not, I don't know

1476
01:33:49,700 --> 01:33:51,700
but nothing ever was said anymore about it

1477
01:33:51,700 --> 01:33:53,700
it was just quiet and that was it

1478
01:33:53,700 --> 01:33:55,700
No one reported it to the...

1479
01:33:55,700 --> 01:33:56,700
what is it, CIC or whatever?

1480
01:33:56,700 --> 01:33:57,700
Evidently not

1481
01:33:57,700 --> 01:33:58,700
No one in our area did

1482
01:33:58,700 --> 01:34:01,700
No, we just boarded our trucks when they came up and took off

1483
01:34:01,700 --> 01:34:03,700
and figured if the officers wanted to know about it

1484
01:34:03,700 --> 01:34:04,700
why that's their prerogative

1485
01:34:04,700 --> 01:34:07,700
we just sort of... as a trainee you start to say out of it

1486
01:34:07,700 --> 01:34:09,700
And there were no corroborating reports from civilians

1487
01:34:09,700 --> 01:34:11,700
they in the Columbia, South Carolina papers?

1488
01:34:11,700 --> 01:34:13,700
No, I can say we didn't read any papers

1489
01:34:13,700 --> 01:34:15,700
we had no papers up in there

1490
01:34:15,700 --> 01:34:17,700
and there may have well been

1491
01:34:17,700 --> 01:34:21,700
because I recall later on hearing reports

1492
01:34:21,700 --> 01:34:24,700
especially in 52 and 53 of a lot of flying saucer sightings

1493
01:34:24,700 --> 01:34:25,700
throughout the southeast

1494
01:34:25,700 --> 01:34:28,700
so this could have just been another saucer that came along

1495
01:34:28,700 --> 01:34:31,700
Now to show you how very little communication

1496
01:34:31,700 --> 01:34:34,700
sometimes there is even at the same camp

1497
01:34:34,700 --> 01:34:36,700
as I told you two and a half years ago

1498
01:34:36,700 --> 01:34:39,700
at the exact same time that Ken saw this flying saucer

1499
01:34:39,700 --> 01:34:44,700
I was news director of the Army radio station at Fort Jackson

1500
01:34:44,700 --> 01:34:47,700
on the very week, the very days, the very months

1501
01:34:47,700 --> 01:34:49,700
that this thing took place

1502
01:34:49,700 --> 01:34:51,700
and I didn't hear an Iota about it

1503
01:34:51,700 --> 01:34:53,700
and you would think that they're on the camp

1504
01:34:53,700 --> 01:34:55,700
that certainly you would hear something about it

1505
01:34:55,700 --> 01:34:57,700
but apparently the news just doesn't get around

1506
01:34:57,700 --> 01:34:59,700
there was no blackout as far as that's concerned

1507
01:34:59,700 --> 01:35:00,700
I don't think was there

1508
01:35:00,700 --> 01:35:02,700
Do you believe? You'd blackout?

1509
01:35:02,700 --> 01:35:04,700
No, I wouldn't think so

1510
01:35:04,700 --> 01:35:06,700
I just don't know why it wouldn't have been reported

1511
01:35:06,700 --> 01:35:09,700
evidently it's a funny situation

1512
01:35:09,700 --> 01:35:11,700
usually when your troops are waiting out on the roadway anyhow

1513
01:35:11,700 --> 01:35:13,700
the officers are never there

1514
01:35:13,700 --> 01:35:14,700
I don't know if you've ever noticed that

1515
01:35:14,700 --> 01:35:16,700
they find some place to speak on here

1516
01:35:16,700 --> 01:35:18,700
nothing, so it may have been a case where

1517
01:35:18,700 --> 01:35:20,700
really nobody of any importance

1518
01:35:20,700 --> 01:35:23,700
saw it to report to somebody

1519
01:35:23,700 --> 01:35:26,700
you see and for anybody in a basic training unit

1520
01:35:26,700 --> 01:35:27,700
for honor of the Lieutenant's team

1521
01:35:27,700 --> 01:35:29,700
I saw a flying saucer

1522
01:35:29,700 --> 01:35:31,700
you know, you just really don't do it

1523
01:35:31,700 --> 01:35:33,700
and everybody sort of relies on the other guy to have done it

1524
01:35:33,700 --> 01:35:35,700
let John do it, you know, I don't want to be

1525
01:35:35,700 --> 01:35:37,700
involved in it

1526
01:35:37,700 --> 01:35:39,700
I'm so glad we got a chance to re-hear this story

1527
01:35:39,700 --> 01:35:41,700
because as it happened at the time

1528
01:35:41,700 --> 01:35:43,700
two and a half years ago when we talked about it

1529
01:35:43,700 --> 01:35:45,700
I recorded the program that night

1530
01:35:45,700 --> 01:35:47,700
and I looked the other day all over trying to find that

1531
01:35:47,700 --> 01:35:49,700
version of Ken Goodman's story

1532
01:35:49,700 --> 01:35:51,700
of the time that he saw a UFO

1533
01:35:51,700 --> 01:35:53,700
so we could play it on the air and I couldn't find it

1534
01:35:53,700 --> 01:35:56,700
and now we've got it on tape again, we can use it for years and years and years to come

1535
01:35:56,700 --> 01:35:58,700
Ken, there's an interesting note there

1536
01:35:58,700 --> 01:36:00,700
I wanted whatever happened to some of the men in my

1537
01:36:00,700 --> 01:36:02,700
outfit over there because it was a funny situation

1538
01:36:02,700 --> 01:36:04,700
I was a trainee platoon sergeant

1539
01:36:04,700 --> 01:36:06,700
I was the only official staff sergeant in basic training at the time

1540
01:36:06,700 --> 01:36:08,700
having been a reservist I went into active duty

1541
01:36:08,700 --> 01:36:10,700
as a sergeant and had to go through basic

1542
01:36:10,700 --> 01:36:12,700
and this young fellow who was my assistant

1543
01:36:12,700 --> 01:36:14,700
my assistant platoon leader

1544
01:36:14,700 --> 01:36:16,700
I better not mention his name

1545
01:36:16,700 --> 01:36:18,700
because I guess you really shouldn't have said anything about it

1546
01:36:18,700 --> 01:36:20,700
but he is now a captain in the Army

1547
01:36:20,700 --> 01:36:22,700
it was two years ago

1548
01:36:22,700 --> 01:36:24,700
and one of the UFO members here

1549
01:36:24,700 --> 01:36:26,700
what is his gentleman's name again

1550
01:36:26,700 --> 01:36:28,700
Brian Acres

1551
01:36:28,700 --> 01:36:30,700
I gave him the list of men, about four of them

1552
01:36:30,700 --> 01:36:32,700
that I thought would be pretty much in the know

1553
01:36:32,700 --> 01:36:34,700
in the Army

1554
01:36:34,700 --> 01:36:36,700
he got a lot of people who weren't and this fellow was pretty bright

1555
01:36:36,700 --> 01:36:38,700
and I figured he'd be one of the fellows that could relate a good

1556
01:36:38,700 --> 01:36:40,700
great collection of the story

1557
01:36:40,700 --> 01:36:42,700
and he did, he wrote back to Brian

1558
01:36:42,700 --> 01:36:44,700
he said he was now a captain

1559
01:36:44,700 --> 01:36:46,700
but I believe in the letter, I didn't see the letter

1560
01:36:46,700 --> 01:36:48,700
Brian has it, he showed it to me Ken

1561
01:36:48,700 --> 01:36:50,700
but I don't think he could make any sworn statement

1562
01:36:50,700 --> 01:36:52,700
could he or could he not?

1563
01:36:52,700 --> 01:36:54,700
well this one letter confirmed what you said

1564
01:36:54,700 --> 01:36:56,700
whether they confirm it then that he had seen the sighting with us

1565
01:36:56,700 --> 01:36:58,700
we just have a few moments left

1566
01:36:58,700 --> 01:37:00,700
and I'd like to take some calls for any of my guests

1567
01:37:00,700 --> 01:37:02,700
including the guest you just heard

1568
01:37:02,700 --> 01:37:04,700
Ken Goodman

1569
01:37:04,700 --> 01:37:06,700
now before we take that next call very quickly

1570
01:37:06,700 --> 01:37:08,700
we had planned something else tonight

1571
01:37:08,700 --> 01:37:10,700
we had some of the ingredients to build this show with tonight

1572
01:37:10,700 --> 01:37:12,700
and one of the most important greetings

1573
01:37:12,700 --> 01:37:14,700
of course being your telephone calls

1574
01:37:14,700 --> 01:37:16,700
we want to make full use of your calls

1575
01:37:16,700 --> 01:37:18,700
we have a UFO detector

1576
01:37:18,700 --> 01:37:20,700
at least Earl Nath claims it is a UFO detector

1577
01:37:20,700 --> 01:37:22,700
now Earl

1578
01:37:22,700 --> 01:37:24,700
on the next UFO program we do

1579
01:37:24,700 --> 01:37:26,700
I want to go into this much more

1580
01:37:26,700 --> 01:37:28,700
how it works and everything

1581
01:37:28,700 --> 01:37:30,700
but just could you give me a little quick thumbnail sketch of it

1582
01:37:30,700 --> 01:37:32,700
and then let me hear

1583
01:37:32,700 --> 01:37:34,700
I have not heard how this thing

1584
01:37:34,700 --> 01:37:36,700
goes off or alarms or whatever it does

1585
01:37:36,700 --> 01:37:38,700
quickly this is

1586
01:37:38,700 --> 01:37:40,700
10 centimeters square

1587
01:37:40,700 --> 01:37:42,700
in our measurement I'd say roughly

1588
01:37:42,700 --> 01:37:44,700
four inches square

1589
01:37:44,700 --> 01:37:46,700
it's a plastic box, clear plastic box

1590
01:37:46,700 --> 01:37:48,700
hard plastic

1591
01:37:48,700 --> 01:37:50,700
on the top of it there's a north and south

1592
01:37:50,700 --> 01:37:52,700
indicator

1593
01:37:52,700 --> 01:37:54,700
and as I receive it now

1594
01:37:54,700 --> 01:37:56,700
I am turning the lid around

1595
01:37:56,700 --> 01:37:58,700
this enables me

1596
01:37:58,700 --> 01:38:00,700
to free the needle that's inside

1597
01:38:00,700 --> 01:38:02,700
the needle inside is like

1598
01:38:02,700 --> 01:38:04,700
a

1599
01:38:04,700 --> 01:38:06,700
compass needle

1600
01:38:06,700 --> 01:38:08,700
and there's a buzzer in here

1601
01:38:08,700 --> 01:38:10,700
and a little tiny red ball

1602
01:38:10,700 --> 01:38:12,700
you notice this little ball here Ken

1603
01:38:12,700 --> 01:38:14,700
and when the current

1604
01:38:14,700 --> 01:38:16,700
is turned on

1605
01:38:16,700 --> 01:38:18,700
there's a little 9 volt battery here

1606
01:38:18,700 --> 01:38:20,700
that will last a couple of years I say

1607
01:38:20,700 --> 01:38:22,700
and if the needle

1608
01:38:22,700 --> 01:38:24,700
which is like a compass needle

1609
01:38:24,700 --> 01:38:26,700
is placed north and south

1610
01:38:26,700 --> 01:38:28,700
through the north and south

1611
01:38:28,700 --> 01:38:30,700
if a UFO goes over ahead

1612
01:38:30,700 --> 01:38:32,700
not an airplane but only something that has

1613
01:38:32,700 --> 01:38:34,700
electromagnetic force fields around it

1614
01:38:34,700 --> 01:38:36,700
this will activate this little needle

1615
01:38:36,700 --> 01:38:38,700
and in turn

1616
01:38:38,700 --> 01:38:40,700
the

1617
01:38:40,700 --> 01:38:42,700
ball here that's on this wire

1618
01:38:42,700 --> 01:38:44,700
will slide from the vibration from the one end to the other

1619
01:38:44,700 --> 01:38:46,700
so if you're not home

1620
01:38:46,700 --> 01:38:48,700
and you've come home and you've seen that the ball has

1621
01:38:48,700 --> 01:38:50,700
moved you get pretty angry

1622
01:38:50,700 --> 01:38:52,700
probably you might shoot yourself

1623
01:38:52,700 --> 01:38:54,700
when you are home can you hear anything

1624
01:38:54,700 --> 01:38:56,700
oh yes very definitely and I'll just activate it

1625
01:38:56,700 --> 01:38:58,700
for you now artificially

1626
01:39:02,700 --> 01:39:04,700
it sounds like a Model T

1627
01:39:04,700 --> 01:39:06,700
and this

1628
01:39:06,700 --> 01:39:08,700
sound then emanates

1629
01:39:08,700 --> 01:39:10,700
if you're home you're in the next room and you have this thing set up

1630
01:39:10,700 --> 01:39:12,700
and if a UFO

1631
01:39:12,700 --> 01:39:14,700
goes off anywhere within what range

1632
01:39:14,700 --> 01:39:16,700
would you say?

1633
01:39:16,700 --> 01:39:18,700
home a good long distance you cannot place this

1634
01:39:18,700 --> 01:39:20,700
directly near a

1635
01:39:20,700 --> 01:39:22,700
big metallic surface

1636
01:39:22,700 --> 01:39:24,700
in other words keep it out pretty much in the open

1637
01:39:24,700 --> 01:39:26,700
or away from metal windows

1638
01:39:26,700 --> 01:39:28,700
or something of that kind

1639
01:39:28,700 --> 01:39:30,700
alright well next time we'll have a chance to go in

1640
01:39:30,700 --> 01:39:32,700
and explain this a little bit more and maybe talk

1641
01:39:32,700 --> 01:39:34,700
about the man who invented it

1642
01:39:34,700 --> 01:39:36,700
right now let's think one of the very quick calls

1643
01:39:36,700 --> 01:39:38,700
before we have to sign off this is heart Morgan you're in contact

1644
01:39:38,700 --> 01:39:40,700
go ahead please

1645
01:39:40,700 --> 01:39:42,700
hello I'd like to report a sighting

1646
01:39:42,700 --> 01:39:44,700
of a man who was just last Saturday

1647
01:39:44,700 --> 01:39:46,700
on 26th I was coming out of

1648
01:39:46,700 --> 01:39:48,700
a back of a drug store in Willowick

1649
01:39:48,700 --> 01:39:50,700
off of Line Street

1650
01:39:50,700 --> 01:39:52,700
and it appeared to me that somebody was shooting

1651
01:39:52,700 --> 01:39:54,700
off firecrackers and I happened to take

1652
01:39:54,700 --> 01:39:56,700
a second look at it and this thing worked like it was

1653
01:39:56,700 --> 01:39:58,700
rising

1654
01:39:58,700 --> 01:40:00,700
from the ground in the back of two houses

1655
01:40:00,700 --> 01:40:02,700
or I would say approximately

1656
01:40:02,700 --> 01:40:04,700
200 foot away

1657
01:40:04,700 --> 01:40:06,700
and as I looked closer I thought it was a

1658
01:40:06,700 --> 01:40:08,700
Roman camera or something and I was

1659
01:40:08,700 --> 01:40:10,700
saying things and I didn't want to believe

1660
01:40:10,700 --> 01:40:12,700
what I was saying but as I looked at it

1661
01:40:12,700 --> 01:40:14,700
it was going up very slow

1662
01:40:14,700 --> 01:40:16,700
and it seemed to hover about

1663
01:40:16,700 --> 01:40:18,700
the street light

1664
01:40:18,700 --> 01:40:20,700
height and it was shooting off

1665
01:40:20,700 --> 01:40:22,700
I didn't see no...

1666
01:40:22,700 --> 01:40:24,700
only that high about 10 feet off the ground you mean?

1667
01:40:24,700 --> 01:40:26,700
yes and then it was like hovering there

1668
01:40:26,700 --> 01:40:28,700
and then it went up very very slowly

1669
01:40:28,700 --> 01:40:30,700
and

1670
01:40:30,700 --> 01:40:32,700
I didn't see no cigar shape

1671
01:40:32,700 --> 01:40:34,700
or anything like this it was sort of a disc shape

1672
01:40:34,700 --> 01:40:36,700
I couldn't see

1673
01:40:36,700 --> 01:40:38,700
the actual disc but you could see

1674
01:40:38,700 --> 01:40:40,700
an outline of how the

1675
01:40:40,700 --> 01:40:42,700
you know the shell or the sparks

1676
01:40:42,700 --> 01:40:44,700
was coming out of it

1677
01:40:44,700 --> 01:40:46,700
and what was this exactly?

1678
01:40:46,700 --> 01:40:48,700
the shell or the sparks were

1679
01:40:48,700 --> 01:40:50,700
coming down at a late angle

1680
01:40:50,700 --> 01:40:52,700
where was this and what part of Cleveland

1681
01:40:52,700 --> 01:40:54,700
was it? in Norwick

1682
01:40:54,700 --> 01:40:56,700
I'd like to know if there were any more sayings

1683
01:40:56,700 --> 01:40:58,700
of this thing and this was approximately

1684
01:40:58,700 --> 01:41:00,700
quarter to ten minutes

1685
01:41:00,700 --> 01:41:02,700
to ten last Saturday night

1686
01:41:02,700 --> 01:41:04,700
I know there wasn't but

1687
01:41:04,700 --> 01:41:06,700
the object you're referring to

1688
01:41:06,700 --> 01:41:08,700
was a small type object

1689
01:41:08,700 --> 01:41:10,700
this could definitely be

1690
01:41:10,700 --> 01:41:12,700
a ball type lightning object

1691
01:41:12,700 --> 01:41:14,700
but I'm not certain about it

1692
01:41:14,700 --> 01:41:16,700
well I at first I thought

1693
01:41:16,700 --> 01:41:18,700
I looked at it and it was there

1694
01:41:18,700 --> 01:41:20,700
all I would say about

1695
01:41:20,700 --> 01:41:22,700
five to six seconds

1696
01:41:22,700 --> 01:41:24,700
and then

1697
01:41:24,700 --> 01:41:26,700
I thought it was maybe an optical illusion

1698
01:41:26,700 --> 01:41:28,700
or a light reflection

1699
01:41:28,700 --> 01:41:30,700
and then

1700
01:41:30,700 --> 01:41:32,700
the

1701
01:41:32,700 --> 01:41:34,700
all of a sudden it's just like I saw

1702
01:41:34,700 --> 01:41:36,700
a right

1703
01:41:36,700 --> 01:41:38,700
angle and off in the distance

1704
01:41:38,700 --> 01:41:40,700
I saw another shell or a sparks

1705
01:41:40,700 --> 01:41:42,700
and then it was gone

1706
01:41:42,700 --> 01:41:44,700
well I'm sorry sir we won't have time to get any more

1707
01:41:44,700 --> 01:41:46,700
of an answer from any of our other guests

1708
01:41:46,700 --> 01:41:48,700
because that is our time for this evening

1709
01:41:48,700 --> 01:41:50,700
my apologies first

1710
01:41:50,700 --> 01:41:52,700
those I'll be waiting on the land who could not get your call answered

1711
01:41:52,700 --> 01:41:54,700
or your statements heard

1712
01:41:54,700 --> 01:41:56,700
my special thanks to George Fawcett on the contact line

1713
01:41:56,700 --> 01:41:58,700
to Pennsylvania

1714
01:41:58,700 --> 01:42:00,700
in the contact studio Rick Hilberg

1715
01:42:00,700 --> 01:42:02,700
one of the directors of American UFO committee

1716
01:42:02,700 --> 01:42:04,700
and then the head of UFO report center

1717
01:42:04,700 --> 01:42:06,700
for the Cleveland U-POLOGY project

1718
01:42:06,700 --> 01:42:08,700
and Earl Knap lecturer on flying saucers

1719
01:42:08,700 --> 01:42:10,700
and a member of NYCAP

1720
01:42:10,700 --> 01:42:12,700
and also my thanks to

1721
01:42:12,700 --> 01:42:14,700
a late joiner Ken Goodman WKYC TV

1722
01:42:14,700 --> 01:42:16,700
and weatherman for relating his experience

1723
01:42:16,700 --> 01:42:18,700
of 1952 to us

1724
01:42:18,700 --> 01:42:20,700
in which a large number of people were involved

1725
01:42:20,700 --> 01:42:22,700
in that setting

1726
01:42:22,700 --> 01:42:24,700
and to Mr. McKinley Catter

1727
01:42:24,700 --> 01:42:26,700
of Florida now the author of

1728
01:42:26,700 --> 01:42:28,700
Andersonville for telling us his experience

1729
01:42:28,700 --> 01:42:30,700
with a flying saucer

1730
01:42:30,700 --> 01:42:32,700
how can we hear that UFO

1731
01:42:34,700 --> 01:42:36,700
next time

1732
01:42:36,700 --> 01:42:38,700
next time we'll have a chance to go more

1733
01:42:38,700 --> 01:42:40,700
into the UFO detector here on contact

1734
01:42:40,700 --> 01:42:42,700
produced by Bob Conroy

1735
01:42:42,700 --> 01:42:44,700
engineering by Gerald L. Smith

1736
01:42:44,700 --> 01:42:46,700
this is WKYC Cleveland, Ohio

1737
01:42:46,700 --> 01:42:48,700
NBC in Cleveland

1738
01:42:48,700 --> 01:42:50,700
tomorrow night a sound off night here on contact

1739
01:42:50,700 --> 01:42:52,700
and I hope at that time you will be

1740
01:42:52,700 --> 01:42:54,700
in contact

1741
01:42:54,700 --> 01:42:56,700
this is Harb Morgan, good night